365 blown head gasket? | FerrariChat

365 blown head gasket?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Eugrasse, Nov 6, 2013.

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  1. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    Dears, my 365 poor water from the water tank, I 've replaced the radiator cup and the water tank cup with new ones, but when running it push water out, in a 50 km ride I 've to refill 5 liters of cooling water. Maybe there is a blown head gasket that increase the pressure in the cooling fluid which escape from the water tank cup or there is another explanation?
     
  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,550
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    That would make sense if you also get oil in the coolant.
     
  3. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    No, there is no oil in the water.
     
  4. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Fill with water and while car is warming up (idle speed) check engine compartment with the aid of a torch check for leaks could be a failed mechanical seal in water pump or a hole in a water transfer hose?
     
  5. oss117

    oss117 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2006
    4,185
    Plantation, Florida
    Full Name:
    Alfredo
    Make sure you get all the air out of the system before you go on a ride.
    Start with the engine cold and the expansion tank full; turn the heater on; open up any vent there may be in the cooling system (on the thermostat housing?) and squeeze repeatedly the large rubber hose that takes the water from the engine into the radiator.
    Idle the engine and while squeezing the hose keep an eye on the level in the tank; have a jug of distilled water mixed with antifreeze ready.
    Once the coolant warms up and the thermostat opens up, the air will start to bubble out from the circuit and into the tank: be ready to top up the tank.
    Continue to squeeze the hose until they are too hot to touch and there is no air left in the system.
    Turn the engine off and place the cap on the expansion tank.

    Before you start all this, make sure the car is parked in a such a way the tank is the highest point of the cooling circuit.

    Good luck
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,982
    socal
    Pressure test cooling system. Other things can cause this too.
     
  7. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    +1

    This is both the easiest and the most reliable / predictive way I know of to tell whether a head gasket is causing a coolant leak.

    Also, it is important to run the p-test separately under BOTH conditions ----- engine HOT & engine COLD ---- in order to make the determination accurately. As some minor leaks may only be present at either extreme.
     
  8. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    Wow how many answers! Very kind of you, thank'you. I didn't make all the tests you have suggested. I didn't understand everything you have suggested, what is the pressure test? How is possible to park the car to have the expansion tank highest, mine is very low under the radiator in the front of it, where there are the horns.
    My knowledge is that the leak is from the expansion tank cup when the car is very warm after a ride in the highway, when it's cold it doesn't leak, at the beginning I though it was a faulty expansion tank cup then I replaced it , but it didn't change.
     
  9. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    There is only one thing that can cause the water to escape under pressure: gas formation.

    This can form from either of the following: 1) steam from overheating (hotspots in the engine from insufficient cooling or insufficient water circulation), or 2) combustion gas being forced into the cooling system, pushing out the water.

    Does it spit water from the tank with the cap off when the engine is cold? Does the exhaust steam a lot when it is started from cold, and does the engine run irregular if that happens? If yes then there might be a head gasket issue.

    It can be many other things too. What is the temperature on the gauge when this happens? Insufficient cooling and hotspot formation can be caused by a clogged radiator, defective waterpump not pushing (enough) water, or even air trapped in the engine. All of these will cause water to pour out eventually.
    When filling, air in the system may prevent you from filling it completely. It seems as if no more water can be put into the cooling system, but in fact the air in there keeps you from filling it properly. Squeezing the hoses while filling may help.
     
  10. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    When it occurs, the temperature gauge show normal temperature, only when the cooling start to be few it start to show overheating, that is how I discovered the problem.
     
  11. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I believe there is a chemical test that can determine if there are combustion chamber gas components in the coolant.

    I have had it happen where a blown head gasket will leak hot, high pressure gas into the coolant and cause it to boil over but no oil is seen in it or coolant in the oil. (If the gasket leak is between the combustion chamber and coolant pathway only you will see this.)
     
  12. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    what model is this car?
    what type of motor(SOHC?), if a 245...simply change th thermstat(GM 180 degree F),
    oncew a KNOWN good t-sta is functioning, and all other valves are either all open or all closed...while driving(fans NOT a functioning factor here), check by touch temp of radiator-look for cold spots-lastly....have local garage use exhaust gas anylizer to "sniff" the expansion tank...if CO present you have to take the engine apart.
    Likely all the way apartas car is 45-50 yrs old...
     
  13. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    #13 Eugrasse, Nov 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    I tried to warm up the engine without the radiator cup: when the engine is cold if I accelerate water doesn't get out , when it is warm 80 degrees Celsius if I accelerate strongly water comes out with bubbles, if I close the radiator cup when accelerating it pours water out of expansion tank outlet hose. The radiator cup has no pressure valve, it's cut off.
     
  15. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
    2,069
    Full Name:
    Jim
    You mean there is no spring on the radiator cap with a metal end plate that seals inside the neck of the tank? I have heard of these falling apart and the spring falls into the tank.

    Does your car have one surge tank that you keep about 1/2 - 2/3 full? That should have a pressure cap (with a spring) on it.

    If your car has a second tank, which is the reservoir tank into which the first tank overflows when it is hot, then the first tank should have a pressure cap.. The second one does not because when it overflows it dumps onto the ground.

    If you do not have a pressure cap somewhere in the system and the tanks are full the car will dump coolant onto the ground when it warms up.
     
  16. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    On the radiator cap there is the spring but no metal end plate as usual, therefore I presume that it seals nothing, on the cap top is marked "pressure 0,7 bar'. Then from the radiator filler neck there is a hose which goes to the expansion tank which is of iron, very low in the car front , lower than radiator , this tank has another cap, which I didn't check because is not easily reachable, on the filler neck of the tank there is another hose which ends free close to the ground, the water exits from this hose only when engine is very warm.
     
  17. Tinbender

    Tinbender Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2004
    327
    Raleigh,Lake Lure,NC
    Full Name:
    Terry W. Phillips
    The cap on the radiator is just a flat cap with a gasket. The cap on the small tank in front of the radiator has the pressure cap on it. It sounds like you have the wrong cap on the radiator and that you do not know what you have on the small tank.
     
  18. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    The radiator cap has no pressure valve, the cap on the tank has pressure valve and it's marked 0,5 bar.
     
  19. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    I checked with the mechanic, when the engine is cold everything is ok, when warm engine pushes gas in the coolant, if we open the radiator cup we see the bubbles pooring out the coolant
     
  20. RWP137

    RWP137 Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2013
    1,605
    AZ
    Full Name:
    Rick
    The chemical test takes 60 seconds and you'll know for sure it's the head gasket.
     
  21. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    9,616
    North Pole AK
    I agree, search youtube, there are many videos talking about this.
     
  22. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    I've already agreed with mechanic to overhaul engine's heads next week, but today I wanted to make a ride, so I filled up the radiator and I made 50 km through the highway at 4000 rpm, the water temperature was stable at 70 degrees Celsius, when I arrived at home I opened the radiator cap, there were few pression and the fluid level was at the top, there were no refrigerator fluid leak. What a mystery, the head gasket it's broken only sometime?
    It's true that are available only new complete engine gasket set and no partial set for heads?
    I don't need the complete set.
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,982
    socal
    There is no mystery. You need diagnosis
     
  24. Eugrasse

    Eugrasse Rookie

    Jul 3, 2013
    40
    Italy
    Full Name:
    Eugenio
    We got the heads out, there were two studs broken because some mechanic before tighten them too much. We have overhauled completely the two heads, replaced all the studs with new ones.
    Today I 've run the car now fixed, she runs perfectly, what a satisfaction. A pure joy.
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,379
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Great news!!!
     

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