365 GT 2+2 4.4 engine head gaskets

Contact Dave Helms Scuderia Rampante in Colorado, USA He has spoken a lot about poor sealing elring HG's. I don't know the specifics but the problem is on both 12 and 8 cylinder models according to him. I know he has fought for a solution but do not know if he ever came up with one. What I don't understand is if the elring HG is the OEM gasket why is it that Ferrari can deliver a car with a good HG but in the aftermarket so many pros claim problems sealing?

So a friend and I do not follow Ferrari's install of dry HG assembly. We have also been told by pros that we are doing it wrong. We liberally spray copper gasket adhesive on the fiber HG's and just bolt them down to spec and we seem to be just fine. We are not supposed to use sealants. We let dry before we test run a motor but usually it take DIY'ers like us a while before we get the cars back together and ready to run that this is not an issue. My pea brain says that when we get that initial seal the 1st heat cycles of expansion and contraction allow the HG to settle in and maintain the seal. It can be a bear to remove heads so glued down. I have hung engines from the head off an engine hoist to break them free once glued with copper. Our annual number of HG done is very low nothing like proshops so maybe we are just getting lucky.

 

You have any input that may help?

 

Elring has a new OEM division and a replacement parts division. The replacement parts division is now in Spain and has decided on their own to respec the materials used. The base material on the composition gaskets is too hard and does not allow the wet liners to imbed into the gasket allowing sealing of the passages on the deck of the block. It is not unusual to have not only water leak problems but head warpage problems causing secondary issues.

 

So how are pros dealing with this problem. You can't afford to do it twice and get paid once. Maybe the solution is to get a guy like Cometic of MLS fame to cut us fiber gaskets. They can't be much worse than Elring if those are a fail anyway.

 

This thread to the group. 365, 400, 412

 

You might reach out to Newman in Canada. He resolved the HG issue for me after going through the usual aftermarket gaskets.

 

Where exactly does the leaking occur ? Toward middle deck perhaps ?

 

In my experience it happens anywhere there is a water passage. No pattern to it.

I had an F40 motor that didn't even need to be pressurized. Pour water in and it ran right out on the floor.


Elring

Another once great company on the long list of products that have just turned to crap.


Never had to in the old days but now I pressure test every one. I fill with water and pressurize to 14 lbs and leave it for 48 hours. It needs to not only hold pressure but it has to be completely dry around the total circumference of the head.

 

These blocks distort a great deal when the heads are torqued on. Use whatever torque spec was used when the mains were line honed or you will be creating a problem. You cannot just change head torque on a whim.

 

Thank you Mr. Crall
I don't enjoy your vast experience with variety of Ferrari models & engines, but have discovered & dealt with similar "problems" on "251" engines and was curious about further details on OPs particular case since his engine is similar vintage.
My (limited) experience and research suggests of slightly different reasons & solutions for these woes but I wish learn more before offering my opinions publicly.
I've shared some of my views on these with other, more experienced Ferrari mechanics and engine builders whom have acknowledged my theories sounding logical.
Just trying learn more...
Timo

 

Trial and error it feels like, also known as R&D.

Last 3 sets of cometic mls gaskets were junk. Getting them to fix it is another headache all together. We moved onto to another mfg. Not cheap but so far they have performed without issue for the flat deck engines. Currently working on the wetliner stock setup. As Brian mentioned the protrusion of the liner makes it a bit more complex.