365 GT 2+2 Restoration Questions | Page 3 | FerrariChat

365 GT 2+2 Restoration Questions

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by TLKIZER660, Oct 3, 2005.

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  1. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    Now that I'm reasonably content with the availability of screws that will fit - correct size or not, it remains to determine what goes where. My interior is Pelle Beige (Camel) leather with what appears to be "Bone" headliner and Black vinyl trim with dark green wool carpet.
    I would like to know what others have for screws in the interior.

    My headliner trim (the panels that go around the outside of the headliner) look like they are held on with either black oxide screws and flush countersink washers or with badly tarnished nickel plated washers. They are almost black but not quite. They show some signs that they were once shiny. The exception is that behind the visors, the screws holding the front panel up are chromed.

    Most of the black vinyl upholstered panels are held in place with black oxide screws.

    The carpets are held in place with snaps except for the vertical pieces in the front and near the heels of the rear seat passengers - they're black oxide.

    Does anyone know what type goes where? Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. As I've said in the past, I don't trust that anything is as it was build originally.

    Tom Kizer
     
  2. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #52 TLKIZER660, Nov 10, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The exact dimensions of the sticker residue is 4-3/8” x 1-5/16”, which appear to be the same proportions, if not the same dimensions, of the “Original Dealer Sticker” at the bottom of that same page (also shown below). Is that possible? I don’t know which dealer in Italy sold my car but I’m going to try to find out.
    Tom Kizer
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  3. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #53 TLKIZER660, Jan 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm giving CPR to this thread because I've got more questions and I think it would be an advantage (at least to me) to have all the 365 GT 2+2 restoration questions and answers in one place.

    QUESTION: At the front of the engine compartment, under the front edge of the hood, where the sloped body colored surface transitions into the vertical surface of the engine compartment, what is the color of the vertical surface? See the photo! Is it body colored or is it black like the rest of the engine compartment? If black, where is the "mask" line between the two colors? If body colored, where is the mask line at the left and right front corners where the seal flange meets the vertical surface?
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  4. drew365

    drew365 Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2004
    252
    The Valley, L.A.
    Full Name:
    Andy Ritter
    My car is black, so I'm no help here. Hopefully someone with a different color will answer.
     
  5. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,800
    Santa Fe, NM
    I would defer to Zac on this, but I believe the vertical wall you're asking about as well as the bottom and other side of the "gutter" are the body color. Of course most of the other side of the gutter will eventually be obscured by the vinyl/rubber piece that slides over it.
     
  6. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    This is somewhat of a grey area from what I have seen and from people that I have spoken to. What looks best is to mask a line between the corner of the rain gutter flange to the other side across the nose and paint body color above and engine bay semi-flat below. Just like on the hood, blending the body color and the engine bay color if tricky and when done right goes unnoticed but when done wrong sticks out like a sore thumb. The water channel where the hood bumpers go is body color and is partially covered by the vinyl seal. Just tell your body guy to take it easy on the filler in the gutter and in the engine bay. From my experience it's better to keep some of the blemishes in the metal then to have bondo chipping off in the engine bay from heat or in the rain gutter from poor prep work.

    Just a side note when you are doing your body work see if your guy can weld the body seam where the b-pillar and the door jam meet and at the top of the rear window in the corners. Both of these areas are notorious for cracks and body flex so the more you do now the less likely it is to crack in the future.
     
  7. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #57 TLKIZER660, Jan 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That's a terrible pun! Look again at the photo.

    I'm not very good at modifying photos, but I've tried to "paint", like I think you described, the part of the engine compartment that shows above the masking paper in the photo. The seal flange was not very well defined in the previous photo but I've tried to highlight the upper edge to make it more visible in the following photo. Does this look about right?


    My body guy is really good. He has been careful not to fill or smooth things like spot weld marks that were in the original car unless they were originally leaded smooth by the factory.

    It looks like my B pillar to roof joints are in pretty good shape. He closely inspected the car after stripping and touched up any welds that were cracked, like at least one place between the the front clip and the space frame tubing. Is the B pillar joint the one shown in my photo?

    Tom Kizer
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  8. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    No pun intended,

    What you have on the engine bay looks good and is exactly what I was talking about.

    The second picture is indeed the B-pillar but where have seen them crack is at the bottom where it meets the door jam right above the door latch. Another place to check is where the A-pillar (windshield frame) attaches to the fender, I think since it such a weird transition and has to be filled to look good it is another weak point. Basically anywhere the roof assembly attaches to the main body seams to be a stress point, maybe it is the sheer size of the roof section that makes it difficult to secure.

    I see in the B-pillar picture you left the headliner in while painting. I made the mistake of not conveying to my painter how important it was to mask it off and save it, so I ended up having to replace a perfectly good original headliner. Don't know wht you plan is just thought I would metion it

    Zac
     
  9. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    Thanks for the paint confirmation.
    I'll check the B-pillars at the bottom, but I'm confident my restorer noted every detail.
    The car has been primed, but the photo was taken earlier during my disassembly of the car. The headliner and everything else except the powertrain and the IP sub-structure was removed before starting the body work. The headliner foam was nothing but powder anyway so I have to replace the foam and perhaps the headliner as well, if I can't clean it or re-dye it properly.
     
  10. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #60 TLKIZER660, Jan 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A new question. Every 365 GT 2+2 steering wheel horn button housing photo that I've seen looks like the first photo. The second one is mine. Does anyone know where mine might have come from? Could it also be correct? My car was built March 1969 - S/N 12293.
    Tom Kizer
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  11. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    Looks like either a reproduction wheel with a Nardi hub or at least a good wheel with a Nardi trim ring and horn button.

    Zac
     
  12. drew365

    drew365 Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2004
    252
    The Valley, L.A.
    Full Name:
    Andy Ritter
    My steering wheel, #12751 U.S. model, is leather covered. the trim around the horn button is black and the spokes have 2 holes in each one. I can't load a pic right now, my camera is acting up.
     
  13. drew365

    drew365 Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2004
    252
    The Valley, L.A.
    Full Name:
    Andy Ritter
    #63 drew365, Jan 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #64 TLKIZER660, Mar 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Another question:
    Do any of you know of a source for the original rubberized asphalt backed cotton-like padding used as a heat and sound insulation for the 365 GT 2+2s?
    Andy at Reoriginals has something similar but it's too narrow (20" wide) and I need 24" wide material to avoid lots of piecing together. Theirs is apparently correct for Alfas but not for old Ferraris. Andy is looking for a source, but I just thought that I can't be the first one to need this material. I would like to use something original but I guess, if push comes to shove,I could always go with some modern material. Here's what I'm looking for.
    Tom Kizer
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  15. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    no luck on my part either, upholstery guy says they just use modern carpet padding and they are happy with the results. The stuff from Re-Originals is not very flexible and will just crack on the seams. Make sure the molded rubber pads are in good shape or else the carpet will not sit at the correct level and if you step on them hard you will crack the fiberglass floor.

    Zac
     
  16. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    Zac, I had to laugh when I read your answer. The rubber backing of the 2"x2" sample that I got from Reoriginals was broken when it arrived. Thanks for your reply. I think I'll just quit looking and make my own by gluing some 1/2" thick jute from Stock Interiors to some thin rubber flooring.
    Tom Kizer
     
  17. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

    Feb 28, 2005
    311
    Oceanside, CA
    You can do that, I tried using a fiberglass water heater blanket and stuck Bituthene to one side. Bituthene is a rolled rubber roofing product that is allready sticky on one side and works good but needs to air out before putting inside a car. The result was pretty good but not perfect and the upholstery guy was happy with his solution so I bagged the idea.

    Zac
     
  18. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    #68 TLKIZER660, Mar 18, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Does anyone out there have an intact and original "Bavetta Sotto Musone" on your 365 gt 2+2? It translates roughly as "Bib Under Snout" and serves to protect the lower radiator tank and keep cooling air from bypassing the radiator. If yes, I would appreciate knowing what is the material, a photo taken from in front down low and the length and width. I've never seen one except as shown in the sketch from the parts book below. I would like to find or make one for my car.
    Tom Kizer
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  19. drew365

    drew365 Formula Junior

    Jun 22, 2004
    252
    The Valley, L.A.
    Full Name:
    Andy Ritter
    I have one. I think it's fiberglass. It's off the car and sitting in the trunk, but the car is on the lift and the car under it can't be moved right now. I'll try to get at it and take a pic tomorrow.
     
  20. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,800
    Santa Fe, NM
    Tom - a buddy and I have fabricated some for ourselves from an original - we made some extra. pm me for more details.
     
  21. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    Drew,
    Don't go to any trouble to get at your "Bavetta". If I don't have to make one, I won't need photos and dimensions. I've PMed BryanP about one of his extras. If that works out, great! if not, I'll get back to you about a photo and some dimensions so I can make one.
    Thanks for your quick reply and willingness to help.
    Tom Kizer
     
  22. JonBrent

    JonBrent Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    732
    Heaven on Earth
    Full Name:
    JB
    FWIW, Rock's Automotive Restoration is selling a repro 365 lower rad cover on Ebay right now (ends March 29 06), item 4624983608

    No affiliation, etc

    Cheers, JB
     
  23. michael bayer

    michael bayer Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2004
    1,292
    For the carpet padding, consider the aluminum foil backed felt air conditioner and heating guys use The foil really reflects heat and the pad insulates more, it comes in wide rolls and is easy to work. Any concours judge that looks under rugs should be shot. Michael Bayer
     
  24. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

    Aug 13, 2002
    3,800
    Santa Fe, NM
    #74 Bryanp, Mar 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. TLKIZER660

    TLKIZER660 Formula Junior

    Jul 30, 2004
    315
    Québec
    Thanks, Jon, I had already seen the eBay posting, but really appreciate the "heads up". I, personally, would always rather deal with an FChatter than with eBay, especially one who has always been as helpful as Bryan.
    It looks like the RockAuto "Bavetta" has no hole for the radiator drain access. I suspect also that there were differences early to late.
    QUESTION: Do any of you know if the original cars had a seal between the bottom of the radiator and the "Bavetta"? I seems to me that a seal would help cooling by reducing air leakage past the radiator. How closely does it fit to the radiator? Any thoughts on the subject?
    Thanks again.
    Tom Kizer
     

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