365 gt 2+2 vs 330 gt 2+2

Can anyone offer some first hand experience concerning similarities and differences of these two models. Much appreciated.

 

365 2+2: More modern, luxurious, complex, heavier. Not a sportscar a GT.

330 2+2: Simpler, less sophisticated (think 250 GTE with bigger engine and restyling), series 1.5 and 2 have 5 speed (nice) and some have power steering and AC. Mine, without either really gives you the driving experience of the older cars but with the flexibility of 4 liters. A bit more raw and sportscar like than the 365 2+2 but still a GT.

Both are great cars. If you are interested in this type of car, drive a few of each as mechanical condition greatly effects driving characteristics.

Regards,

Art S.

PS. if you search, you will find much discussion on this topic.

 

in what regards?

My stand outs would first of all be the power steering and independant rear suspension on the 365 2+2. The engine on the 365 for me has the best match for the larger four seat Ferraris with that little bit more torque. On the flip side when I first considered both of these cars I prefered the looks of the 330 and in person the 4 headlights are much more attractive then in pictures. Best advice I or any of the other 2+2 owners will give is drive both and look at them in person but most of all find a good-great car. With all Ferraris you want the best car you can afford( or even a little more),these cars have never had the high sticker values as the other more sought after cars there are few that have been properly cared for for their entire lifespan.


Zac

 

Thanks for the response.
Art, I have seen your beauty while searching the archives(yes, of course) but wanted a direct comparison which i did not find.
I guess the prices for these are rising steadily. Do either of you have an idea what you would need to pay for a good car? When I say good, nice interior, good paint and recently overhauled engine, and rust free. It seems prices are creeping up into the 70's and 80's????

 

I would suggest looking hard for the best version of either you can afford. Make sure its a car in regular use-these ferraris especially get better with use and worse without it. I would be afraid of even the prettiest car if it hadn't been regularly driven.
My 330 is also pretty simple-I was not interested in dealing with a lot of 40 year old luxury features (if I want to have electric everything, AC etc. I drive my modern car). I agree with Art-drive some if you can. They are very different from the more modern cars-even a near contemporary Dino feels much more modern. The biggest negative about my pre-electric fan car is it's dislike of traffic.
My 330 reminds me most of a Jag mark 2 with a bigger engine-a pleasure to drive quickly, but highly illegal speeds aren't needed to have fun.
Remember to leave plenty of dough for inevitable unexpected costs-my great PPI car has needed new brakes, synchros, wheel bearings, tie rods, clutch and alot of other odds and ends. Also might be prudent to work out where you can get work done locally if you aren't equipped to do it yourself-nothing in my experience is more irritating than having to wait months and months for repairs.

 

I agree with most of what the other members said, but I'm not sure that the problems some have experienced with the "load-leveller" rear-end of the 365 is worth it. I much prefer the A/C and P/S version of the 330, although I don't know if your area requires A/C. Without P/S a 330 steers a bit like a Daytona--it requires some muscle. The overdrive of the 1st series 330 is a terrible weak spot; that and the appearance are the reasons why they are less pricey. Bottom line: it comes down to what you like. I agree that condition is all-important with a car this old, which is almost certain to have some deferred maintenance issues. Good luck in finding the right one.

 

Ha! I feel your pain, my mid-atlantic brother!

I agree w/ the above posts; you'll probably find bigger differences between the feel of one 365 to another and one 330 to another than between the qualitative differences from the 365 to the 330 generally. The differing states of maintenance and repair these cars have experienced over 35-40 years is hugely disparate. My car was completely transformed by simply replacing suspension bushings. Go with gets your juices going more, but get a good one.

 

Tony,

I still wait months and months for repairs! Francois has had my car for 5 months now (said it would take a month) during the most recent round of improvements. Apparently my clock works again (it worked for three days last time I had it overhauled). The car finally ready and I hope to pick it up this week.

Also, Francois redid my cooling system and the car does not overheat in traffic without a cooling fan.

John,

The problem with a comparison is that the condition differences will play at least as much of a role as design differences in the way the car performs. A good example of this is the comparison between the Series 1 and Series 2 330 2+2's done in Forza. A lot of the handling differences described between the two can be directly attributed to condition. My car is mechanically restored but cosmetically original (including paint and leather) it isn't close to concourse perfect but I like it that way. That said, Francois (Sicard - one of the vintage Ferrari gurus in the northeast) says that my car runs and drives better than many (most?) fully restored high dollar cars.

Also bear in mind, it costs the same (possibly slightly less) to completely restore a 250 California Spider as it does to restore a 330 2+2, a 365 is probobly even more still; somewhere in the neighborhood of $150 - $200K (assuming you pay a shop to do it). Also they cost the same too maintain. So factor this in to your search.

If you can find a car that really has nothing hidden for the price you have named, go for it. As far as I know, none of the really good restored cars are for sale. However, you may get lucky and find a cosmetically 'fluffed' original car in that range. By the way, mine still has enough warts to not meet the description of the car you desire.

If you are seriously interested in these car, go to Tom Yang's website (all of the responders on this thread are regulars there). It will give you a much better feel for the cars.

Zac,

How is your restoration coming?

Regards,

Art S.

 

Bryan,

Francois is 120 miles from me but I still take the car to him unless its really minor. I find that if he fixes something it stays fixed (except the emergency brake which I kill with great regularity!)

Regards,

Art S.

 

Ed,

Did you have any 2+2's? If so, any stories? I associate you with the really great cars.

Regards,

Art S.

 

I prefer the looks of the 365 to the 330, but I believe all of the advice posted above is very good.

My 365 has certainly been fun over the years. This summer, I took it on a 1500 mile round trip to Lake Tahoe-- which is exactly the sort of thing it was made to do.

 

Great input. I wish I was in an area where I could just go drive some cars. I will have to travel to do so but maybe there are some in the SF bay area which is just 3.5 hours away. If anyone reading this has one of these models and would take me for a ride/drive, please post, pm or email me.

I knew the opinons would hold a large variety of preferences but I think I am feeling more "resonance " with some of the reasoning and answers. I just got off the phone with an east coast restorer who I respect a lot. We talked for almost 2 hours about 330's, 365's,Iso's and Ghiblis. VEry very informative. He really prefers the handling, driving characteristics of the 365, which suprised me. I figured the 330 would be more nimble and fun to drive.

One last element that is important and may shade any advice offered; I live on the north coast of Calif. and there are NO straight roads within an hour of me. Everything twists, so whatever car it is, it needs to be fun in the curves.
thanks

 

While the styling may be "bland" compared to the 330 GT and 365 GT, try a 365 GT4 2+2. I think the driving experience is a nicely "bridged" modern and old school design.

Try one out, they're basically giving them away compared to the other two...

 

John:

I'm in Texas and bought my 330 (see profile) sight unseen out of the Bay area. My drive home in it from the transport unload was my first-ever Ferrari drive or ride. I was lucky...my car needed quite a bit of reconditioning and catching up on long deferred maintenance but basically was in good shape and mechanically very sound, complete, and original...paid a reasonable price for it as well. My point...I guess the same as as many of the posts here: these old 2+2 cars are, with few exceptions, going to have upfront issues. I'd recommend having $10 grand minimum in Ferrari-dedicated cash after you've bought the car and paid all the associated purchase costs.

Regarding my car...it's a blast, the most fun I've ever had with any automobile, and there is little I regret in my expenditures on it...what I do regret are a couple of minor poor choices on my part.

 

Hi John,

I echo what was said above but can add 2 points.

Unless you are really lucky, if you actually plan to drive the car, you will need $10 K minimum for necessary repairs soon after you buy it. I bought a nice original 330 last year- never molested. The mechanicals were original too, so we had alot of repairs, but it was done our way so I know it was done right. In a 40 year old car, either every component has been fixed or needs it.

The vintage 2+2 market is hot (up 50% in 2 years). You cant be too choosey. If you find one that meets your standards, go for it, but do get a PPI first! Especially do compression and leakdown on engine. It seems to me that all old V12s have either been rebuilt or else are less than perfect.

No right answer re 330 vs 365- go with what you want.

For the Mid- Atlantic folks: I have had an incredible amount of work done in a timely fashion by a mechanic at Ferrari of Washington at reasonable rates (for a Ferrari). He is superb and his work stays fixed

Good luck,

Dan

 

Well, since I live a good 170 miles from the nearest and 200 from my preferred Ferrari mechanic, I am concentrating on getting one that is very sorted out. I realize that things will come up and hopefully I will be able to fix some of them myself. Funny how that 10grand figure keeps coming up.......
must hold some water.

Dan, I have seen a couple of 4 headlight cars and most of the dealers, traders and collectors I know put it down as the bastard stepchild, but I have to admit, I like at least elements of it, i.e. the broader fender as it moves forward to accomodate the wider lights. Maybe a bit more guard dog than puppy dog. I know they are valued less, but are they also harder to sell?

Can some of you who are owners and have posted your opinions, post a pic of your car?

 

My 1964 330 2+2.
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While I have not driven a 365 yet, I do own a 330 Gt series II which I bought last year after a long search. I have put about 5000 miles on the car and it has been a joy. Its tough at low speeds (no power steering) and on hot days (even with A/C), but the sensual pleasure outweighs all that...it is fun to drive. The car is realtively bulletproof (for 40 years old) and if maintained properly should be no problem. I have to admit I am lucky though, I have one of the best mechanics within 35 miles. You have seen Matt's car, this is mine:
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John,

the $10K is a minimum in my opinion. Note, it wont go in one lump unless you are unlucky but in 20 little payments.

Regards,

Art S.

 

much like that pesky leak in my garden hose, eh?!!

 

Scott and Sam, thanks for the pics. I love the subtle beauty of this model. I few years ago, I felt I really prefered the GTC but the 2+2 is now equally beautiful to my eyes. Of course this may be "colored" by the reality the gtc is no longer within my reach!
I love all the movement in the sheet metal, and yet all so very subtle, especially compared to the modern cars. Any more pics?

 

7919 over the years including some interesting photoshops done by a fellow F-chatter
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brave man, public parallel parking! Love the christmas tree shot.

 

365GT2+2, 11199, 26th of 801. ex-Count Ossi (I know, I know, incorrect wheels! The ten-wholes are done and being saved for shows)
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Arts,

I have seen the shots of your car before and am reminded that mine, I think, had fog lights too. At least the holes are in the bumper. I contacted a guy named Daniel Stern a while ago who was enthusiast recommended and was described as a lighting expert and after swapping measurments with him he thought I should mount 5" diameter Cibie series 40's. I had inquired about a fog and driving combo in chrome and he said he had to check his warehouse and found nothing so would have to await shipment from Europe......that was in December!!!! They look great and knowing the lack of light the headilights produce in general, must be a big help on late nights.