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365 GT4 2+2 Bushing Removal

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by samsaprunoff, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    As mentioned in my earlier thread I have been slowly working on my 365's suspension refresh and have encountered a nasty issue that I was curious how others have resolved. The problem is that Ferrari with its "infinite" wisdom did not design the suspension arms with any thought as to how to remove the original bushings. The rear inboard bushings are rubber Flamblock style and so the bushing has an outer "lip" that sits flush with the suspension arm surface. Most, if not all, manufacturers design the arm such that there is a larger diameter lip so that the bushing can be pressed out. Sadly, Ferrari did not do this. As a result there is no nice and "clean" way to press out the bushings.

    The first suspension arm I worked on was the rear upper and I found that the bushing "lip" diameter is 42mm and the suspension arm had a outside lip of about 43mm. After looking for any type of "die" I could use for my press I had a friend of mine modify a collar that was close. Here he opened up the collar to 42.5mm which would allow the bushing to clear and would allow a surface I could press against. This worked well and I was able to remove the two inboard upper bushings with relative ease. Sadly, the lower has virtually no lip as can be seen by the pictures... argh... I simply cannot believe how such a simple design element could be missed. That being said, before I fire up my mill to remove the inner bushing surface (so I can split the bushing) I was curious if anyone else ran into this issue and what they did to press out their bushings.

    Thanks in advance!

    Cheers,

    Sam

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  2. Temerian

    Temerian Karting
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    Jun 17, 2014
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    Manhattan
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    Rick Temerian
    Sam- I had the same issue. I burned out the old rubber with a torch (very nasty smoke so do it outside) and then cut through the wall of the bushing with a sawsall and a fine metal blade. One slit and I was able to hammer out the old bushing sleeve. Just be careful not to cut into the suspension arm casting. Good Luck!
     
  3. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Rick,

    Thanks for your post! Thankfully I have discovered a process where I can remove the rubber without burning it... as you are right that resulting fumes and smoke from rubber is pretty nasty! The outer bushing washers are sort of peened to the center bushing and so if you strike them with a hammer the washers will loosen and then become free of the centre bushing. The result is just the rubber and the centre bushing. Here I simply use my press and I can pressed out the centre bushing and the rubber intact leaving the outer bushing. I did try as you did to cut this outer bushing, but was worried that I might damage the suspension arm. I still might have to do this if my mill approach does not work. I am thinking that since the mill is quite precise I can mill the bushing very close to its outer surface and then dislodge the whole assembly. I have to say this is certainly one of the silliest issues I have seen Ferrari made. In fact there is a f-chat user who used to bust my chops about my fuse blocks and how they were not needed, because Ferrari "Never" makes mistakes...ahem...

    Thanks again for your comments and your solution!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  4. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
    390
    Australia
    Hi Sam,

    This wasn't a very good design & does not leave much meat to press against. However I seemed to have a bit more there than in your picture. My old bushes were labelled " WA MADE IN ITALY " not FLANBLOC like yours & the bush was about 41.5mm allowing me to machine up a suitable tube to press them out. Are you able to file or grind the outer diameter of the bush down a little to give you more room?

    Cheers,
    Al

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  5. Part Time

    Part Time Formula Junior
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    Dec 16, 2013
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    Port St. Lucie, Fl
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    Gary Shore
    Hi Sam !
    Yup, getting the old bushings out is much more a pain then pushing the new ones in and, without a milling machine in my garage, I opted for the "cut off the washer, drill the rubber out and cut relief notches in the outer sleeve " method.....pics are in my "How To....Front bushings " thread. A bit medieval, but, I need to get it done with whatever tools I have !
    And, I agree....2-3 more mm of outer dia on the arm casting would NOT have added that much weight on a already 4k lb car !

    Gary
     
  6. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Al,
    I did machine a collar for the first two and they pressed out fine. However for these I had about 1mm on the outer lip and so I had something that the collar could press against. The remaining 6 have virtually no lip... and so a machine collar simply will not work. I did try, but there is simply not enough material. Grinding the material is an option, but as you know it is thin and so there is too much risk to damaging the arm. I decided to do a brute force approach and mill/remove the entire outer lip leaving me the arm surface... that I can press out on either side. I started to do this a while ago and so I almost have my first done... however, I was called to prep supper and so duty calls :)

    As for the bushings... yup, mine are Flanbloc and have an outer lip diameter of 42mm. Lucky you that you had a "generous" 0.5mm extra in diameter :)

    I am still quite miffed at all this... a 5 minute job per bushing is taking a whole lot more.

    Thank you for your post and your comments!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  7. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Gary,

    There is nothing wrong with success! I may end up using the same approach, however, lately my precision skills tend to be crappy and so I am concerned that I may overcut the inner bushing and damage the arm. Thankfully I have a 1.5 HP mill on hand that is more more precise than me and so I will give it a go. If I get really annoyed then I will bug my buddy at the machine shop and have him sort it out. As another one of my friends have said "What is the point of having friends if you cannot use them" ... This is an ongoing joke between all of us, as we tend to help each other out with whatever respective skills we may have... then some nice food and one's favorite beverage tend to be exchanged.

    Thanks again for your post and suggestions!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  8. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    Just to conclude this thread... As mentioned, I ended up milling the outer lip down to the suspension arm so that I had a larger surface to press against with my collar. This was a bit time consuming, but worked well. By the last one I was pretty good at manually milling circles :). For some of the arms I had to mill a bit of inside of the old bushing, as even with 12 Tons of pressure it would not budge. I would recommend a 20T or larger press to make things easier. Overall a real annoyance and something that could have easily been avoided if the suspension arm designer would have thought a bit more.

    Lastly, although the rubber bushings looked really knackered (cracking, discolored, etc) the inner rubber was still reasonably pliable. I was expecting them to be hard and/or more evidence of degradation, but this was not the case. That being said, I am not sorry I undertook their replacement, as I am sure the car will ride much better and will look good too.

    Next up is to remove the coil springs and then sort all the parts for plating and painting, etc... so a few more threads will be started over the next few weeks.

    Thanks to all of you who posted!

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  9. Tojo

    Tojo Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2002
    319
    Sydney
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    Tim
    You're probably done by now, but for for me who doesn't have a mill, just a cheap press, I used my bench grinder to grind down about half of the face off the outer flange, then I used the closest large socket I had or a piece of pipe to press the bush out into. Once I ground down a sufficient amount of the flange the press broke the centre of the bush away from the flange which then just dropped away. A little butcherous but it was effective

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  10. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Tim,

    Yup, I am done... well, with pressing out the rubber bushings, as there is still a lot more to do. I experimented with various techniques including the grinder approach you mentioned and decided that my mill was my best option other than handing it off to my buddy at the machine shop. That being said, one has to use whatever tools are at hand and it is great that we have all posted up various techniques to accomplish this task. If anything it will provide some info and options to others who may run into a similar situation.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    Here is a link to Gary's Front Bushing replacement thread he mentioned:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/how-to-r-r-front-lower-inner-suspension-bushingspart-1.570267/

    I thought I would include it here for completeness sake and to help future thread searchers find details on this bushing removal process. Interestingly, it looks like Gary's Front bushings are longer than the suspension arm width. This is a lot different than on the 365 rears, as the bushing is just slightly proud of the arm width. Also, on the 365 the fronts are all metal to metal bushings... no rubber style bushings at all.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     

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