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375+ # 0384

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by tongascrew, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. Debc

    Debc Rookie

    Apr 11, 2013
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    Deborah Clark
    Thank you Kim, this is a long and complicated story just like this whole case has been. The email I posted actually did not come from Joe Ford, I thought so but after looking closely at it I noticed there was a slight difference in the email address. I have a feeling it might have been send to me and one to my husband's email by CG. However I did confront Joe about receiving this and he to said it was not send by him. Why did someone feel compelled to send me this, I think whoever it was knew we would not be receiving our 10% of Kristi's share, it seemed like they were gloating about it. There for I think it was CG, because I had so much damaging evidence against him in favor of Ford/Lawson when he tried to get 100% of their share.
     
  2. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    Ford/Lawson breaching a contract and now fake emails. I am getting a feeling of deja vu.

    As for Gardner, I saw him as a pragmatist who may well take the view "forget about the past, join forces and whats good for you is good for me"
     
  3. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Bottom line Deb

    Is Joe paying you your 10 percent?
     
  4. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

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    I thought the Florida arbitration decided that in your favour or am I wrong?
     
  5. Debc

    Debc Rookie

    Apr 11, 2013
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    Deborah Clark
    Francisn; No Joe did not, our agreement is with Kristi Kleve-Lawson. The Florida arbitration was Gardner vs Ford/Kleve. We only provided three days of testimony.
     
  6. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    So do you expect to receive from Lawson?
     
  7. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    #4057 Enigma Racing, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Debbie, it may come as a surprise but to correct you, your original agreement may have been with Lawson but this was incorporated into the option agreement she entered into with Ford and accepted by all parties including Ford. There was a notified amendment signed by Lawson and Ford ("Change #1") that was entered into on the same day that specifically recorded your commission of 10% if the car was sold. The amendment was added to paragraph 5 of the agreement dated 25th February 2010.

    Clearly Ford was aware and accepted your prior interest when he entered into an agreement with Lawson and this is substantiated in a number of posts Ford made on this site.

    By way of background, ("Change #2") was to amend a somewhat ironic mistake made by Ford where he incorrectly numbered the chassis 0834AM and ("Change #3") was the ill fated amended to increase Fords share to 100%

    Ford post 2639 – 29th December 2014 acknowledges your prior agreement with Lawson to recover the car

    Ford post 1783 - 19th August 2014 sets out the basis of your involvement and recording the fact that the Clarks “interviewed” him for the job

    Ford post 1473 - 4th August 2014 confirms that the subsequent amendment ("Change #3") was delared “null and void” and the original agreement dated 25th February 2010 which incorporated reference to your ("Change #1") set out below was validated by the Court. Note that Ford uses an amendment numbering sequence that follows your amendment number ("Change #1")

    Finally, my post 2480 – 11th November 2014 asked Ford to confirm the arrangements agreed in ("Change #1") by all parties.

    No surprise when I tell you he did not reply. As always, Ford ignores the difficult questions. Equally, no surprise that Ford failed to mention the agreed amendment to you let alone abide by the obligation.

    As they say, with friends like these, who needs enemies
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  8. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    #4058 Enigma Racing, Oct 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    During the Court hearing Florence Swaters talked of her fear that Ford would turn up at her fathers funeral and create a scene. Subsequently Ford constantly complained that Florence refused to have any contact with him including the final settlement meeting in London

    I found this letter in the thousands of exhibits and can now understand why

    "Respectfully" clearly has a different definition in Ford's dictionary
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  9. Debc

    Debc Rookie

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    Wow, Kim this certainly all comes as a surprise to me. David and I appreciate the post.
     
  10. Ocean Joe

    Ocean Joe Formula Junior

    Mar 21, 2008
    444
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    Joseph Ford III
    Members of This Thread

    Yes, my email still alerts me when there is a post on this thread.

    Ms Lawson misstates the Clark Agreement in her Change #1.

    Dave Clark would earn a 10% commission if HE recovered and if HE sold the Ferrari. The Clark Contract was reviewed and concluded in 2010 on the day Ms Lawson provided me a copy of it. I offered to let Dave fight (and finance) the battle in Ohio court that had just begun and he could not, so Dave's recover and sell effort ended, as did his contract. This is old news.

    And also for the record, all parties to the UK litigation settled all their claims (UK, OH, FL) and the terms of the settlement are confidential.

    The fact that some person sets up a phony gmail account made to appear as if it is my account, and in that email then attempts to stir up emotions of all of his/her enemies speaks volumes - we all know who it is. Apparently that person with the phony email account did not get his/her due so he/she attempts to hurt others and raise false expectations.

    Don't be a part of that sad, destructive effort.

    The car is safe and sound in Ohio with its new owner. I am happy about that!

    Joe

    *
     
  11. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    Joe, what a load of old cobblers !!

    There was no misstatement by Lawson as you agreed and entered into a notorised amendment in full knowledge of the Clark agreement. There is no reference to “HE” in the agreement as you erroneously claim, David Clark was appointed a representative to recover and sell the car and was involved in the recovery right up to the bitter end and for a long period he did this on his own as you were unable to do so under the terms of your Court injunction. It is clearly apparent that Clark worked as part of a team in the same way you did with your partner Gardner

    "Old news" to you but to the layman, your “sad, destructive effort” is better described as a justifiable claim from Clark and someone who you should be grateful to for employing you in the first place let alone for all the support he gave you in the Florida Arbitration

    As for the confidential £2m (just a wild guess) settlement to cover you, Lawson, Smith, Clark, Gardner and the long list of others you promised a share to; do you ever reflect on how much more you would have received had you not been greedy and wrecked the original 50/50 settlement negotiated by Gardner ?
     
  12. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
    New York City
    Wow, isn't this thread amazing. Ocean Joe really should work for HBO, he can stir up more **** then the election, ok not that much.
     
  13. mbzgurl

    mbzgurl Karting

    Oct 3, 2010
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    #4063 mbzgurl, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
    Yale, you're amazing. You always make me laugh.
    Love,
    C
     
  14. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula Junior

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    Bill Henley
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a smattering of Summons!

    All of the three daughter's, the husband, and Joe.

    What do you read, in the tea leaves!??
    :D :D :D
     
  16. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2012
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    If you click on the "Party/Attorney Information" under "Case Options" -- https://www.courtclerk.org/case_summary.asp?sec=party&casenumber=A%201605727 -- you will see that David "Guru" Clark and wife Deborah are the plaintiffs, and that "Ocean" Joe Ford, Kristi "There's No Daylight Between Us" Kleve, Ray "Fatboy" Lawson, and Kristi's sisters Katrine and Karyl are the defendants. More than this I do not know.
     
  17. mbzgurl

    mbzgurl Karting

    Oct 3, 2010
    133
    WoW!
    You go Zach! Round 2.
     
  18. freestone

    freestone Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2005
    412
    West Coast USA
    So much dishonor. Obviously the car was stolen and then hidden aboard with no intent to return it. It's too bad that people get blinded by greed and try to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing.
     
  19. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
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    Haven't checked this thread in ages. Is this finally over? If so who won? (Besides the lawyers)
     
  20. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

    Apr 10, 2013
    24
    Columbus, Ohio
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    Ralph Conner
    I have been waiting for someone to explain the end of the story. Seems to be continuing in the Ohio Courts with the Kleve-Lawson Florida Lawyer Ocean Joe as a defendant for failing to pay out to the Lawson-Kleve Gang. Seems a broker, who worked the deal directly with Les Wexner, has sued the Kleve family members also. I did hear the Florida Lawyer got $3M, and stiffed Kristine Kleve Lawson and Phatboy with $300,000. I heard that the Florida lawyer disappeared or is in hiding.

    Also here in Columbus in close circles here it appears that Les Wexner got a bee in his bonnet and took a crack at Bonhams at a time when Sotheby’s and Bonhams were courting a sale to the Chinese Government’s deep pockets. That massive media launch to the precise date of a pending Bonhams cash out stunned the deal Bonhams had, and shifted the buyer to Sotheby’s where Les Wexner was securely and actively attached in several ways. I heard it was one of Les’s bone breaking moves he’s known for in business. Lots are not understood here in Ohio , and on why the Ohio State Treasury didn’t go after the Kleve’s daughter Kristine Lawson-Kleve for leaving the Ferrari out of the Karl Kleve probate at a value of $18,000,000 even if they gave in at the auction, still Ohio Title passed to Wexner which meant the value to Kleve-Lawson would have been $18M , regardless of what they gave away. Most people wouldn’t get away with that at all. But, the Kleve's got away with much in Ohio for decades and more with their accomplice who it appears took up residence at the Lawson house to register the Ferrari in Ohio in his name, thus passed the title to Wexner.

    Who won? Better ask who loss. That had to be Swaters at a cost to his reputation and who was certainly framed with the lies and malice of this thread promoted by an slick outsider to the Ferrari world. Should teach us all to be wary of lawyers , nut cases and people with nothing to lose that sneak into the Ferrari threads

    I am sure most of the talented contributors were literally worn out from the thread not having the energy for further rant.
     
  21. bitzman

    bitzman Formula 3

    Feb 15, 2008
    2,149
    Without reading all the threads, I thought Swaters had attached a number to it
    that was not the original number. But wouldn't restoration of the original number make it worth more if then its racing pedigree could be mentioned?
    Or would Ferrari be embarrassed that they had been party to a change in chassis numbers just to keep Swaters happy --he who helped them get off the ground in European racing. Now that Swaters is deceased, it seems they shouldn't be so obligated to perpetuate a falsehood if the car wasn't born with the number it has now.
     
  22. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

    Apr 10, 2013
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    Columbus, Ohio
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    Ralph Conner
    I think this subject is dead now. The London Judge summed it up quick and clean. Kleve was a nut case, he sold the car to Swaters after the theft by a few rogues and Kleve was paid. Kleve buried the money, and the rest went to cash auctions for local junk real estate. The daughter left the Ferrari out of the estate of Kleve because it was sold, and she knew it. The rest of the story is scam and sham by a bunch of lawyers, a few Ohio judges and hucksters from Florida to Paraguay. This was a classic legal shake down, at the expense of the only honorable man in this Ferrari fog- Jacques Swaters. The S-Storm continues in Ohio with the Florida lawyer doing a runner, and the nut case KK Klan suing each other as their DNA is programed to do. The car is 0384AM, and likely was thought to maybe be some other number at one time, and during it's research, but it was always 0384AM End of subject. I am positive it will be up for auction in the future, and it looks like today it brought record money considering the legal stink on it and the market today.
     
  23. IXLR84FUN

    IXLR84FUN Rookie

    Apr 10, 2013
    24
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    Ralph Conner
    The good die young they say. But in this 375 Plus case Ocean Joe continues to amuse.

    I saw that a court case came up this week in Cincinnati so I sat in with the juror trial. The cast of USA characters in the Swaters 375 Plus all emerged again for more than breaking open the champagne for 2019. The script was a broker in California named Dave and Debbie Clark was promised a commission by Kristie Lawson if the 375 sold. Ocean Joe aka/Joe Ford assumed the agreement with the Clarks, but Lawson and Joe were ‘’partners’’ – each accountable . Clark made efforts to market the car, thus he wanted $1,600,000 from Kristie Kleve Lawson and Ocean Joe Ford . Clark’s sued in Ohio the Lawsons , Ford and Ford’s same name sons.

    It got very messy in the courtroom this week with the appearance of ‘’Zach’’ Gottesman representing the Clark’s. In social media terms, Ocean Joe came ‘’unhinged ‘’ blaming the world, all the Judges and a laundry list of lawyers for his dire fall from grace while Gottesman buried him alive, to put it mildly. After a day in the hot seat Ocean Joe filed bankruptcy in the middle of the trial today.

    Word is not in yet on what happens now but I gather that Ford’s conspiracy and profit from the Swaters settlement was an illegal gain of some definition. Seems his allies and GTO owner supporters , all brought up in the court by name, have run for the hills also.
     
  24. francisn

    francisn Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
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    Thanks for the update Ralph. This saga continues to give :) Zach is not one to mess with!
     
  25. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    As the late Monsieur Swaters would have said Quelle Surprise !
     

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