Thanks Joe. I was indeed wondering if it had anything to do with the offer you found in the 1999 files of $3mil from another party. There seems to be a general consensus that Daniels was operating as a 'rogue agent' - is there any possibility that Lancksweert was doing the same, and Swaters was not aware of the inner workings of the settlement agreement? I ask in a somewhat rhetorical sense, because that doesn't necessarily absolve Swaters of liability, nor can the question truly be answered anymore, but in my mind it is a possibility.
Of course there is always a chance, a possibility that Lancksweert was rogue in the day to day settlement negotiations - a possibility. However, and in my opinion, Swaters consistently turns a blind eye ("willful blindness" is the legal term) and consistently is Johnny-on-the-spot to reap the benefits of that blind eye. And it gets worse in my opinion, as Swaters actively participates in the bull**** "mis-identification" to 0394AM. So, I think the Court will find the "fingerprints" of both Lancksweert and Swaters in the series of calculated deceptions that began likely in 1989, went underground in late 1990-1999, and then reappear in 1999. Again, in my opinion, I think Swaters knew what was going on because he is just too seasoned and experienced of a businessman not to, and had someone else do the bad dealings, likely intending to always turn a blind eye. Again, like Alec Baldwin said in "The Departed" -- "Cui bono?" Your question is again sharp in that you realize that Swaters is not dissolved of liability for Lancksweert, as Swaters' rogue agent, should that be the case. It is my opinion that they were in cahoots with Daniels (a civil conspiracy in legal terms), as they took too many shortcuts to be a true good faith buyer. Further, and again in my opinion, when they heard that 79 year-old Kleve was denying any sale or settlement, they avoid Kleve, likely hoping he would die and so their years long scheme could finally payoff. Well, they did not know about the 1999-2000 taped conversations, Kleve's contact with the FBI in year 2000, and the year 2001 affidavit of Karl Kleve. Two years later, on December 24, 2003, Kleve passes away, age 90. Thus, my opinion, it is nothing more than a years long, sophisticated attempt to launder a stolen Ferrari worth millions. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login
Out of curiosity what's on page 4 and 5 of the transcript? The FBI agent sounds like he's about to call Kleve out on something
Back and forth about Kleve expecting to attend a final closing, with his title, to then sign the docs at final closing, and pick up his $3,000,000; about Lancksweert contacting Kleve in 2000 to learn that there was no deal; about a ghost car in trade; about Daniels claiming he sent stuff certified, but of course he didn't; about Kleve knowing "The title is the critical item" to transfer the Ferrari. Nothing better than the actual pages, so here they are: Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Page 6. And the utter absurdity of anyone suggesting to any car guy about a reduction from $3,000,000 to $625,000 for want of a VIN plate that is reported stolen, and useless to the next possessor. Thus, in Kleve's own words: "All these other numbers are just foreign to me, Ken. I can't -- they just did that." Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login
''The origin and authenticity of the vehicle will be one of our key criteria in order to ensure that the most tremendous vehicles will be gathered'' Florence, Alexandre, Henry ( The Swaters ) Truth, like gold, is to be obtained not by its growth, but by washing away all that is not gold. Leo Mikolaevich Tolstoy (1828-1910) Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, Napolis will be in the 'hood, with his bug splattered P4/5C....maybe he could drop in on the way back from the 'Ring..... Someone really needs to pull the kids aside, for a "real world chat" on the issues....
* We had our May 10, 2012 hearing on some pending motions, including Swaters' motion for Partial Summary Judgment. The Judge said, as expected, that he would not hear any dispositive motions until completion of discovery, and declined to hear Swaters Motion for Partial Summary Judgment. Also, we made the Court aware of the new Ohio title for the Ferrari 375 Plus 0384AM and are now in compliance with a prior court order. Additionally, Swaters replied to the list of admissions, as expected. The purpose of that was to give the Court a reason to award attorney fees as to when we prove an admission that they deny. I am sure the attorneys have explained this to Swaters as not only are they incurring hefty attorney fees of their own, but they will likely be ordered to pay 50 - 100% of mine . . . assuming more goes as predicted. As of the Judge's Order of May 23, 2012, we now have some deadlines and a trial date. See attached. Shortly I will post some new criminal aspects related to law enforcement actions. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ferrari Community, I am trying to get some insight as to the Swaters connection to Atlanta via Doug Freedman, insights like how far back does it go and why. The 1989 trial transcripts show that Atlanta is where the thieves/accomplices plotted to steal Kleve's car. Atlanta is where the thieves/accomplices took the car within days after the theft. Atlanta is where it was allegedly sold and then transported for prompt export to Belgium, of all places. That is fast work in my opinion. At least as early as March 1997 according to the Swaters' produced documents below, Doug Freedman was making demands on Mark Daniels, apparently on behalf of Swaters, his "constituent" whatever that means. At that time (March of 1997), Kleve's Ferrari 375 Plus was still on the stolen car list and Swaters was claiming to have 0394AM not 0384AM. I have asked Doug Freedman direct as to why would he help Swaters under such circumstances, but Freedman refuses to talk. I also wonder if Swaters had showed Freedman the suspect 1989-1990 documents (recently produced by Swaters) that show how in February of 1989 Kleve's stolen Ferrari was "sold" as a 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus 0384AM out of Atlanta then days later fraudulently exported as "car parts" and then magically transformed back to a Ferrari 375 Plus 0384AM at import in Brussels with a declared value of $4,500 (1/100 of its fair market value). If Swaters was upfront and showed the suspect docs to Freedman, then why help? In my view any "help" is nothing more than assisting in the laundering of a stolen car, assuming Swaters was upfront in 1997 and showed Freedman all the suspect docs. If Swaters was not upfront with Freedman, then maybe Freedman was unwittingly duped by Swaters into helping. But if what you truly have is 0394AM, why at all bother buying or settling 0384AM from Kleve, and why help that person legitimize a phony 0394AM build / VIN? A couple of docs are below to help out. I have the above suspect 1989-1990 docs and more from 2005 with Freedman. Any insights or go-betweens out there that can help make sense of this? Private message me if you want. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
* Ferrari Community My understanding is that Douglas Freedman was President of the Ferrari Club of America from 1995 - 1999. I have to think as President of the Ferrari Club of America, one would be keenly aware that the Ferrari factory was vigorously defending its brand against replicas and cars with counterfeit VIN's. I also have to think that the President of the Ferrari Club knows to check factory build sheets for confirning true VINs. See the attached Il Cavallino articles. Meanwhile, Swaters is parading around in Belgium in a Ferrari 375 Plus identified as 0394AM, which the build sheets and production records show was never a Ferrari factory produced car. See the attached Il Cavallino articles. At the same time Swaters is parading around in a car he claims as 0394AM, Kleve's Ferrari 375 Plus 0384AM is on the stolen car database with Kleve seeking help from US Congressman, the US Embassy, then FBI, etc. Belgian authorities report to those inquiries that they are unable to locate Kleve's car. So, the questions become 1) what is the President of the Ferrari Club doing in 1997, and 2) knowing what we now know, what is the past president doing about it now. Kleve had three daughters as his only heirs. Joe * P.S. As always, I am trying to get to the truth and give certain people a chance to do the right thing and convince others to do the right thing. * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I am no lawyer but as an historian of sorts this is a very important case to keep up with. I am maintaining in the file on 0384 much of your offerings which are most welcome and appreciated and I will continue to do so. tongascrew
Well, the "fact checking" department of Cavallino is...... That is amazing the car was published like that...... *sigh* FCA membership.office does not always indicate altruism or strength of character, it only means you had $175USD.
* What puzzles me is not only was Douglas Freedman President of the Ferrari Club as he, in my opinion, carried water for Swaters, but lately he and his wife Genie are quite active in the classic car world. Check out the Carmel by the Sea Event that they helped found and run. http://www.carmelmagazine.com/archive/08fa/concours-by-the-sea.shtml Thus I find it hard to understand why Freedman continues to allow and prolong what is clearly, in my opinion, the Swaters hoax as he tries to launder a stolen car - a well known and famous Ferrari racecar. My point is: Dear Doug, Can't pretend not to know any longer. It is time to do the right thing. Joe An excerpt from Swaters' affidavit and a Jacques Swaters letter from April 4, 1990 follows. Also, courtesy of a fellow Ferrarista and Bugatiste: "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones" William Shakespeare ''A man can only be judged by his actions and not by his good intentions or his belief'' Paul Newman * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The case of Jacques and Florence Swaters versus Kristi Kleve-Lawson continues in Cincinnati, Ohio. We are still in the discovery phase. I just obtained about 500 new FBI documents from 1989 onwards and they give a behind-the-scenes look at who was doing what about Karl Kleve's stolen 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus #0384AM. I will post a selection of these FBI documents as the names are redacted on some, so I could use help. Also, as a result of this 2010 Ohio case the FBI now knows that Phillipe Lancksweert was involved in the purchase and has given an affidavit in 2010, knowing all the while it was a stolen car. Perhaps the Ferrari community can do a write-in complaint campaign and we'll see some new indictments and other actions. I am in the process of drafting my complaint letter as we now have much more evidence than the FBI did back then and this new evidence shows Swaters' and Lancksweert's knowledge that the car they bought was stolen. The significance here is that the years of Swaters' claims that he bought it in "good faith" only to later learn it was stolen is what kept officials from pursuing him. At first, they assumed he was being truthful plus they knew it would be hard to prove against such a high-profile figure. Well, now in 2010 we have concrete proof that shows Swaters and Lancksweert were BOTH purchasers, both knew it was stolen, and both, in my opinion, were later untruthful about it. And this is at a time when Swaters' has been displaying the car he has as 0394AM . . . For now, take a look at this FBI document from October 6, 1994, and the FBI activity that followed as a result of some Ferrari community members doing the right thing. I will post the followup FBI file docs afterwards. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login
UPDATE on Jacques and Florence Swaters versus Kristi Kleve-Lawson, Cincinnati, Ohio * Also revealed in discovery is the report of Swaters' forensic document expert. It was apparently withheld from us for over a year. As you know, Kleve maintained all along that what he signed and notarized on July 16, 1999 in Ohio was a $3,000,000 offer to settle. That offer was then expressed to Mark Daniels in Florida, who signed and notarized on July 19, 1999. Then, strangely, Lancksweert does not sign until September 2, 1999 in New York, at which time page one of the document now has a $625,000 amount. Kleve has always said that it was altered after he signed thus there was never any agreement. Well, Swaters' hired a well-known forensic document author and expert to test for alteration. His name is Stephen Slyter. The scientific finding of Swaters' expert is that six types of ink were used on the signature page three (three parties and three notaries). Swaters' expert next compared those page three inks with the ink of the page one $625,000. Swaters' expert found a match between the Florida ink of Mark Daniels's signature and that of the $625,000 amount. Thus, Swaters' forensic document expert has scientifically proven what Kleve has said since 1999. Below is an excerpt from Swaters' expert report, and on the right is a short bio from one of his books. Yep, this is a major development. Joe * Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have no idea who is right and who is wrong here. I write only to express my displeasure about "trying the case in the press". This is why Gloria (you know her name) is disliked in the legal community; she (I am told) has never tried a jury case all by herself, but her name is everywhere thanks to her press agent. Joe (true name unknown to me?) has made this thread his own private soap-box, presenting his version of the truth ad nauseum. His version may well be the right one, but I would like to see this case tried in the proper forum, with a jury made up of citizens uncontaminated by what we read here. Just one (crabby old) man's opinion! (and I'm sure an unpopular one).
Ed, I agree with you totally! It seems to me that this complicated law-suit is also negotiated rather than only before the court - but without the Swaters-party! Whatever was discussed here does not have any influence on the judicial verdict.
Ed, While in general I agree with you. I'm not certain I agree in this particular case. Mr. Kleve had been trying to get information to build a case for many years. Mr. Kleve died trying. By maintaining this thread, Joe is attempting raise awareness in order to get additional information from the Ferrari community to support his case. I doubt that this thread is so widely read that it will taint a jury should a trial occur. Regards, Art S.
Hello Ed, 1) This is Joe. I have posted documents to show not only my full name but also the fact that I am a party, not an attorney trying a case in the media. 2) Swaters, with his reputation in the community and with the misplaced trust of others, has been plying his case since 1990. I await your complaint about that, and about his "contaminations", assuming you are as fair-minded as you believe yourself to be. 3) Swaters, with his website, his reputation, on NPR radio, has been plying his case in the media after Swaters filed suit in Ohio. I await your complaint about that and about his "contaminations", assuming you are as fair minded as you believe yourself to be. 4) Heck, it may be that it is you who has already been contaminated. I am just helping you to wash away years of the falsehoods LOL. So, my take is that both parties (not their attorneys) are on their chosen soap boxes, and I can assure you that Kleve was the truthful one. And by the way, the 500 plus FBI docs (added to the prior 471 FBI docs) are ALL from the Swaters' discovery. This saga about Karl Kleve's stolen 1954 Ferrari 375 Plus #0384AM has been of interest to the Ferrari community since the outset - even the FBI made note of that, and made note of Swaters' false claim of buying not knowing it was stolen, Swaters' false claim that the car he possessed was 0394AM despite knowing the factory made no such car, etc. Now this very same actor with prior false claims has set foot in an Ohio courtroom with a yet another claim that his own experts are confirming as . . . . If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask. Note how some Ferrari community members have acted responsibly and honorably, taken a stand for what is right, and called Swaters out on what he did. Kudos to them. The FBI made note of that too. It does not always take a courtroom or a jury to decide what is right and wrong. FYI, the below doc is an FBI doc from an FBI report dated 5/5/95. Cordially, Joe, co-Defendant with Kleve's heir in the Ohio lawsuit now underway. * Image Unavailable, Please Login
I think Mr. Niles' point is that you take every opportunity to declare this to be a "stolen" car and/or to argue your case. As he points out, you may well be right, and you may well win (or not). But, there's an old quote that may be appropriate in circumstances like this... Thou "...doth protest too much, methinks" - Shakespeare. I've generally avoided posting in this thread because it is a complex case, I've said my peace early on, and I figured I'd let the facts come out at trial. And, while this is all indeed interesting (and I have met quite a few folks in the Ferrari world who aren't exactly on the up and up), and I am following it, I think you risk turning people off or against your cause. Anyway, regardless of how this turns out, it's a fascinating story. CW
If as “Quelqu’un” mentions, Worldwide Exchange in Atlanta settled the theft case but giving back the ill-gotten $4500 to Karl Kleeve, didn’t that make the sale of the chassis and spares on Feb. 22, 1989 to Exception Automobile legal? “Quelqu’un” also mentions that it is Exception Automobiles’s owner, Michael Kruch that went first to the local police to declare their suspicion that the car might have been stolen. Clever move or proof of innocence? In his conclusion “Quelqu’un” affirms that Jacques Swaters, lacking the title, the engine or the VIN plate “stupidly” but somewhat legally used S/N 0394AM for his replica to be “left in peace”. Later he missioned Philippe Lancksweert to get the title from Karl Kleeve in order to change the status of his $500K S/N 0394AM replica to a >$5MM S/N 0384AM historical car. Fascinating story indeed.
