3D Print Plastic Pieces....

Just a small update, but my work got a 3D scanner recently. I didn't try scanning any Ferrari parts, but I did try scanning some smaller items that are detailed, much like our Ferrari interior parts are. As I suspected, the quality just isn't high enough to capture detail on things like vents and switches. Any part that isn't a simple "one-sided" face takes multiple scans and the output files need meshing to work correctly with a printer. The accuracy is decent (~0.25 mm) but for me decent doesn't cut it. All my stuff was measured to the thousandth of an inch, and after the printing process there is some added slop to the real print. In other words, I can't afford to add additional error to the geometry during the measurement phase because the print process itself always adds some error to the real parts. I think for now I'll be sticking with the tried and true calipers-by-hand method... Like I said before I don't think the technology has quite caught up for this application yet. Probably a few years away...

 

Looks nice.

 

Hey Everyone. I have had some interest in the window switch bezel I 3D printed. For the one I made for my car, it took about 2 solid hours of post-processing to get one of these things from raw print to finished product. I had initially thought that this was a game killer as it would force me to charge a ton for the parts to make up for the hand work. That being said, I hadn't seriously considered selling the parts "unfinished". Perhaps that is an option that some people would be interested in after all. To finish the parts you basically need to clip off the support structure, then wet sand under a sink with a series of ever finer sanding grits (start with ~400 and end with ~2000). Finally, I used some polishing compound to take it from a "dull with fine scratches" finish to shiny. In the end the part looks pretty much factory, with the exception that the shade of plastic is slightly brighter than stock. It only is noticeable in direct sunlight, which doesn't happen that much on the inside of the car.

So to sum up:
I hadn't previously thought to sell them this way (raw print)
The finished part is not concours-level perfect, but it's pretty good
As far as I can ascertain, the plastic is a more brittle analogue to ABS plastic. As I have already installed mine with no issue, I believe it will perform fine in this application.
I'd be looking to get $75 for a bezel (having these things printed on the high quality printers isn't cheap)

If anybody is interested please chime in. I still think the "concours perfect" solution is a few years away, as printers and material choices improve, but if you want a solution to a broken part that, as far as I know, is the only plastic bezel reproduction available, this is it. The pics in my earlier post show the part I actually am using in my car. I know I need to get a few made at least in the near future and I'd like to let my vendor know if I'm going to be ordering a lot as he might be able to process them faster if he knows they're part of a batch order.

 

Well I need a new one so happy to try a 3d printed one

 

Hey e21jason,

Thanks for the interest! Please PM me

 

Oops, didn't see the rest of the thread before my response below: BTW - Nice work on the parts, Impressive!


It's totally feasible, however there are a range of 3D print technologies and some are better than others for the level of quality that most of us would be willing to accept. On the low end, I see them as being potentially amazing tools for casting aluminum parts using a lost wax approach with PLA plastic and for mold development. There are also some very interesting 3D printing materials which make possible some very innovative ideas with regard to the properties inherent in the printed part (magnetic, glow in the dark, wood, conductive, flexible, dissolving). Typically at the hobbyist level there is extrusion (which I currently have) and the newer light polymerized machines. The light polymerized machines seem to be the winner with regard to accuracy and but more costly than extrusion based machines.

With regard to the extrusion based machines, often you have to sinter parts in order to increase strength, and even then (like carbon fiber) strength can be somewhat unidirectional. I see 3D printers currently as means to cast molds and parts casting as the primary reasons to consider getting a 3D printer for automotive applications. Although, I concede in low strength applications, many filaments might perform adequately. I certainly am a layperson in regards to all this... however, I would really be excited if all the plastic panels in the car were modeled and could be 3D printed in the correct colors without stickiness (and I don't see that putting Sticky No More out of business either, since OEM parts are valuable because originality counts in some cases).

It's viable to produce, but regardless, there is a machine, materials, and programming to be done to get to the point where these panels could be reproduced and the effort is not trivial and the skillset pretty substantial.... however, with the right people and adequate motivation? Yes, it's possible to make the parts, but I don't know if the final quality would be sufficient to replace the factory parts in all cases.

 

At the research and super high dollar level, the technology has been there for a while. At the manufacturing level, it's really max print size and materials holding everything back. FDM machines can print big stuff, but the quality isn't close to what you need for OEM level parts. SLA machines have the quality, but at a much higher cost of operation and a more limited choice of materials (for now...). For instance the reason I'm not hurrying to print vents is that I don't know of reasonable priced SLA stuff that can do the vent surround in one piece yet. In a year or two it'll probably appear but then I need to wait for the market to saturate that machine with a wide choice of materials etc etc. It's still a few years out IMO.

 

For those that bought the bezels, I made this instructional video on how to take the part from raw print to finished part. This is pretty much the standard procedure for post-finishing any 3D print if you want it to look injection molded. By no means is this the only (or best) way, but it's how I've been doing it with decent results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-h54vceLfg&feature=youtu.be

If anybody is still interested in a driver's side window switch bezel for the 348 I'm selling them for $75 + shipping (maybe I'm supposed to post this in the classifieds...I'm not familiar with how you normally do this sort of thing). Attached are some pics of the process from print to finished part. The OEM part is on the bottom in all the pics. The finish I achieve is glossier than the OEM, but not by much (see video for a better idea of what it looks like in the car). Im sure there's a way to get the exact finish of the injection molded part, but I haven't experimented enough yet to find it. P.S. on the pics and vid of this sample part I didn't clip all the nubs of the support structure all the way off (I was just trying to show the sanding/polishing process so I didn't care that much). For a real part it's easy to take the time and slip the supports all the way flush with the part so you can't see them.

Now that I realized that this bezel is a frequently broken part (I originally figured it was just my car...), I'm curious what else breaks frequently on people's cars that isn't easy to buy. If you have a request let me know and I can probably reverse engineer it. Thanks to those that already showed interest.
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very cool

 

Awesome work.

Since you're refinishing anyway with sandpaper/polish, would it make sense to print face down? Seems like that would make a nice improvement in the time/material cost.

 

No because of the supports(those lines that had to be cut away). 3D printing cant print in air, must print on a support or on the print. If you print this part face down then it would be a nightmare of a job to remove the supports. Looks like Kris put a lot of thought into having it set to the correct angle to have the least amount of supports.

Im very impressed.

 

Print upside down on something that you can melt away like wax (or something non-stick like Teflon). That way when you sinter the parts the wax (or other meltable substrate goes away).

 

Hey mfennel70,

The particular printer I use to make these does not work well when any surface plane is oriented exactly in the horizontal direction. It has to do with the processes the machine performs between layers. I have tried printing things flat before, but they did not turn out well at all. As for the angle, I iterated a few time with my vendor to get it to where almost all the supports attach to the backside of the part. That way if you aren't super thorough when trimming you can't really tell when the part is installed. There are print processes that don't use supports, but they are out of reach right now from a cost perspective.

 

I completely ignored the recesses in the piece. You're right, of course.

 

Any of these still for sale. Been looking for a solution for the switch bezel and just rain across this cool solution.

 

As a matter of fact I do still have a few extras, just PM me if you're interested. As an update, I am currently working out a deal with a new (local) supplier that has cutting edge printing tech ($250k+ machines). I have toured their facility and spoken with them about my specific requirements, showed them the parts I already made, etc. I am very motivated to eventually be the go-to-guy for rare Ferrari resto parts that are 3D printed, and I think I may have finally found the correct technology to print very complex things like vent assemblies and larger panels to an extreme quality. I'm fed up with having basically no stable source of good plastics for these older cars, my own 348 included. Stay tuned for more progress from me hopefully in the coming weeks and months...

 

Unfortunately, 3D printing resolution is not good enough. My buddy has a $350k machine and it's just not going to beat injection molding.

 

The place I toured last week can do it. I saw stuff they're doing for Fortune 500 clients. They can achieve just about any finish you want after post processing, which they can do quickly and efficiently in-house. There's also some other proprietary methods for making these parts that I'm exploring. It's not an easy problem, but it's crackable, and once you can manufacture parts in low production runs it makes restoration so much easier.

 

"Post processing" is the key trim and costly. For an impossible part - sure given no other choice. But finding a used OEM part is the better option (most of the time)

 

Great Job R&D. Have you trued printing your bezels in a Stereo Lithography printer yet?

 

I assume a light , low pressure sandblasting (or perhaps soda?) will give it a more industrial look.

 

The ones shown above were done in an entry level consumer SLA machine. I am working on using an even better printing process right now to eliminate layer lines more and allow for larger parts. As it is the lines are barely there, they sand right off.