430 4-1 headers and the power dip on the dyno once and for all...

I have the full IPE system with 200 cell cats on my 430 and don't see a pronounced power dip, but as I understand it comparing dyno results isn't always apples to apples for a variety of reasons. Mase Engg did an ECU tune on his dyno with the following results - Steve was wonderful to work with BTW, and I'm sadly a bit negligent for not having updated this thread over a year ago when the work was done. I hope this helps.

(blue = before tune)
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I can't say that I've noticed any impact on fuel consumption and to be honest, I've never actually checked fuel mileage. Living where I did up until recently, there weren't many places where you could really let loose easily unless you had utter disregard for traffic, cops, etc. but when I finally got lined up with a C7 Vette from our car club at a traffic light I couldn't hold back any longer. The power difference caught me by surprise hitting the rev limit much faster than I expected in 1st & 2nd. All around, very happy with the IPE sound & setup combined with the ECU tune.

 

Thanks for posting more dynos on this topic. I never bought into the 4-2-1 is better for mid-range argument; if it's good enough to go racing with 4-1 on F1 cars, it's good enough for my car.

Also worth emphasizing, 4-2-1 layouts produce a sound that carries a deeper tone (I liken it to muscle cars) and produces more gurgles at low rpm, but once the car hits the upper rev band both 4-2-1 and 4-1 layouts produces a sound that is marginally distinguishable, with a slight tip of the hat to the 4-1 for being higher pitched.

Either way, the gains in emotion and laughter > actual performance.

 

Zed, might be worth getting the injectors sent in for a cleaning and inspection. Some of them could be leaking. Worth doing at this age anyway

 

LOL. That’s because when you drive, you’re always at 6k RPM or more!


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https://auto.howstuffworks.com/421-exhaust-system.htm anything else you guys need to know ? 4-1 becomes more efficient high revs as previously stated, all turbo owners only 4-2-1 for you girls

 

https://www.redline360.com/garage/4-1-vs-4-2-1-headers-what-is-the-difference-what-makes-more-power

 

Meh, it just sounds like that but I'm really under 4.5K

 

F430 - Stock

Claimed data:
Horsepower 490 Hp at 8500 rev/min
Torque 465 Nm at 5250 rev/min
Actual data:
Horsepower 472.9 Hp at 8205 rev/min
Torque 471.4 Nm at 5450 rev/min.

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F430 - Supersprint manifolds, cats, and rear section

Supersprint:
- Manifold 391301
- Front exh.R. kat 391302
- Front exh.L. kat 391322
- Rear exhaust 391334
- Endpipes Kit 391326
Actual data:
Horsepower 509.4 Hp at 8300 rev/min
Torque 501.6 Nm at 5050 rev/min.

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F430 - Stock vs. Supersprint Full System
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There are various things going on with the engine management to optimise torque including changes to the variable geometry inlet manifold, so swapping the manifolds ideally should be accompanied by a tune - not least because of the pre-cat removal - but there isn't anything wrong with a 4-1 manifold - in fact I think the power delivery much better suits the car.

 

Very interesting thread!!!

I've got a fabspeed header on my 05 430, no tune (although I think I might invest in one based off this discussion) but I will add that I can't feel any noticeable dip in hp/torque above as I accelerate up in a gear. Feels very linear.

Also, unless cruising to work/grocery store, i.e. on spirited driving in the countryside, I operate in the 4.5-7.5 'ish range almost all the time. I don't track it so I have zero input there. But I naturally start my pulls out of corners around 5k. I don't have any formal training on tracks either, so I might be driving inefficiently, but instinctively that where I end up and feels like I'm getting the most of the car's performance.

 

Mark I know you are the expert, but isnt the ECU supposed to learn to readjust to such changes, I know on my Boxster GTS when I got the original cat cores replaced by something more free flowing I was disappointed for the first 200 km but then suddenly everything changed after that (as I had been informed it would)

 

fwiw my F430 Spider has Capristo 4-1 headers & actually a bench ECU tune (from 2008) from before I replaced the headers, it feels properly fast, throughout the whole rev range to the raised 8,800 rpm limit, strangely more so than my 430 Scuderia ever did, (noting that 430 Scud doesn't have cats in the headers, like the F430)

 

Quite right, Richard; there are adaptions for calibration such as fuel trim which are learnt over time and can be reset if required, however these are designed to allow for wear in the engine over time and different operating conditions/fuel grades rather than something more fundamental like removing the cat and changing the manifold flow characteristics.

 

P.S. careful with the raised rev limit. The F430 rods, bolts, and bearings are at their limit with the stock rev limit.

 

well I did it 12 years ago .... and its only another 300 rpm... and its properly fast.. if fact the engine performance has never been this strong

 

every manufacturer has a safely limit built-in which is usually at least 500 rpm

 

And Nascar run 4-2-1 headers, high revs, go figure.

 

normal super car guy just did a 430 video about ECU tuning fwiw

 

You mean the guy who's F'ed up his car numerous times......one being catching his car on fire??? no thanks..
Mase Engineering would be my only choice for a tune. Steve at Mase supports the challenge series.

For those who want peak performance in our engines, ...if you can..., take the silly cats out and put in a tune. Get an exhaust system that allows you to silence the catless exhaust with a valve system.

 

Im going to have my 06 dynoed - it has capristo headers and capristo 200 cell hiflow cats. I may do the ecu and then will dyno again.

 

NASCAR engines have 90 degree cranks, Ferrari engines have 180 degree cranks. Apples and oranges.