400 idle speed | FerrariChat

400 idle speed

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by GT Jones, Jul 27, 2013.

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  1. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    #1 GT Jones, Jul 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have just replaced the old dirty air filters with individual filter assemblies on my '78 400. Previous idle was butter smooth at 900-1000 when hot but now the speed slows and dies after 30 seconds or so. Cold and hot starts are fine, drivability is normal and high rpm operation seems great. The coils were also replaced but that shouldn't change idle speed? Any ideas?
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  2. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
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    Bruce
    You might get a quicker response in the 400 section, try there as well
     
  3. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    FWIW/FYI-
    reduced air flow-pretty simple actually...

    the car will need to be retuned utilizing a 12 cyl mercury manomter...
    without which, your time and effort will largely be wasted...
    this is a job requiring skill, tools and experience typically ouitside the purview of the average DIYer
    (DLR cost for a factory, filtered and with evap traps{mercury's boiling point drops steeplywith vaccuum. Boyle's gas Law} using mercury was 5000.00 USD in 1990-94)

    You wil also need a gas analyzer with ports at each exhaust pipe at head flange...lastly, no one with the requyisite experience is likely to even start this without removing the distributors and sequencing them on a distributor machine first-as 95% of ALL carb problems
    are found to be in the distributors!
     
  4. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,270
    Tucson, AZ.
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    Fritz Ficke
    You changed two things.
    1) you went to individual filters which will draw more hot air that the originals which means you need to lean it a bit.
    2) you also opened up the air passage by having clean filters which means you need to lean it a bit.
    My guess is you should go around and turn all 12 idle screws the same amount in, say a quarter turn and see how that does, if not try another quarter turn on all screws. If you do not like what you have done you can put it back to the way it was if you pay attention.
    I would try that before you spend the big money.
    Good luck.
     
  5. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Thanks Fritz. Since the original post I've read through a lot of carb threads and your post hits the nail on the head; keep track of what you change and experiment with one variable at a time. I'll dig into it tonight.
    The carbs were rebuilt 2 years ago (less than 5k miles) by a respected shop and the distributor advance and points were done just a few months earlier. I cleaned the jets and replaced the fuel filter so I think I'm at a good baseline.
     
  6. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2001
    1,225
    Windsor, CT
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    Bill Sebestyen
    I think you still need to get a timing light on the engine and confirm smooth operation of the timing advance on both banks. They need to be pretty close. I don't believe one can assume timing is correct until confirmed with a timing light and tachometer.

    What's the timing doing at idle and off idle. Where does it start? What the advance at 1000 , 2500, 5000 rpm? Timing going up in rpm is more important than going down in rpm.

    Is the advance smooth, or jumping around, or a lot of hysteresis?

    Bill
     
  7. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    I turned in the idle mixture screws a 1/2, then another 1/2, then another 1/2. running the engine for a few minutes in between changes as I drove around the block in 2nd gear. Idle is good at 900 or so. Power is smoother off idle at light throttle but the flat spot at 2800 is more pronounced. The screws are still about 2 1/4 turns from seated which suggests to me that the idle jets (45 f24) are too lean. I think I should order one size larger idle jets (size??) and I'll check timing in the next few days.
     
  8. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,270
    Tucson, AZ.
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    Fritz Ficke
    Do not mess with your ignition timing. The car had "butter smooth" idle before. The only thing you did is change the air filter which would only effect the air/fuel ratio. So it would be logical to make changes on the air/fuel mixing system.

    The factory jets were determined with fuel that did not have the alcohol we have today. Alcohol requires more fuel. Going a step up in a fatter jet for idle makes since in more ways than one. The clogged air filters, with the dense cool air of the original air box's kept you closer to the needed fuel air/ratio.
    The trick in tuning is not to do to many changes at one time so you can see the results of what each and every adjustment makes.
    You are going on the right path in the right direction. Do not get distracted.
     
  9. GT Jones

    GT Jones Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2011
    669
    Lincoln, MA
    Full Name:
    Christian J
    Just to close the loop here. I swapped in 50f8 idle jets and it is running very well. The idle mixture settings are 'normal' and a simple flow meter available from pierce manifolds confirms that the sync is pretty close now.
     

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