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400i not starting

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by roger21, May 16, 2019 at 4:27 PM.

  1. roger21

    roger21 Karting

    Aug 13, 2015
    234
    France
    Full Name:
    Stéphane
    hello all,

    My car is currently at the workshop getting the self leveling system replaced.
    My mechanic called me today to tell me that the car don’t start any more...
    He told me that the fuel pumps won’t turn which reminds me of a K-jet problem that has already been described somewhere on this forum by Steve Magnusson or Newman If memory serves...
    Unfortunately I am unable to find this topics via the search fonction.
    Anybody remembers this topic?
    Any link?
    Many thanks
     
  2. Part Time

    Part Time Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 16, 2013
    427
    Port St. Lucie, Fl
    Full Name:
    Gary Shore
    One easy test for the fuel pumps is to disconnect the connector at the inside of the air valve just below the rubber air duct going to the intake manifold, then turn the key to "ignition" position but do not crank the starter You should hear the pumps running and even hear the fuel going through the pressure and return lines at the side of the air cleaner housing. What this sensor (blue plastic) controls is that it waits for conformation of engine cranking and airflow past the air valve until it energizes the fuel pumps, when you dis-connect the sensor, you are tricking all of the fuses, relays and fuel pump to the "run" position. If you do not hear the pumps running or fuel flowing, begin your electrical testing at the fuses in the main box and the relays below them, then all the way to the pumps under the floor.

    Gary

    Or search "fuel pump".
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    17,926
    Texas
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    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, May 16, 2019 at 10:02 PM
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 10:07 PM
    Note: I'm responding assuming that your Mechanic has confirmed that spark is occurring on both banks during starter motor cranking ;)

    The good news is that there's only a few places where a single failure can cause both fuel pumps to not run. First thing I'd suggest is trying a different Bosch 0332204101 relay in position "T - Relay for fuel pumps" (this single relay controls both fuel pump relays). If still no joy, unplug the safety switch per Gary's suggestion (it's on one of the airflow metering units) and turn the key "on" = you should hear both fuel pumps run:

    If they do = try starting the engine with the fuel pumps already running

    If they don't = remove each fuel pump relay and touch a jumper wire from the female 30 terminal in the relay socket to the female 87 terminal in the relay socket:
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    The corresponding fuel pump should run (even with the key "off") when the jumper is in place. If you fail this test, give a shout and we'll go from there...
     
  4. roger21

    roger21 Karting

    Aug 13, 2015
    234
    France
    Full Name:
    Stéphane
    Thanks a lot!
    I’ll be at the workshop in an hour. I hope he will have find something or will accept to give your plan a try...
    Will keep you advised.
    Thanks again
     
  5. roger21

    roger21 Karting

    Aug 13, 2015
    234
    France
    Full Name:
    Stéphane
    Well... my mechanic incriminates the pumps (wich, indeed, don’t look nice).
    Both? Simultaneously? Yes, he answered.
    Well, if I understand correctly he is a bit overworked and doesn’t want to start working on an electric gremlin before next week...
    So we’ll go for new pumps and wait and see.

    At least the shocks are back and on the car. They look nice!

    Thanks, will keep you advised
     

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  6. mguthrie

    mguthrie Karting

    Jul 11, 2010
    88
    SE Mich and WPB, FL
    Full Name:
    Mike G.
    Roger, please supply more feedback on the shocks? Were they rebuilt or replaced? Are the new ones self-levelers? Can you advise costs? PM me if you like. Thanks. My 1980 400i apparently had its rear suspension removed at the time it was federalized and it now need new shocks. No intent to hijack the thread so I will start a new one if needed.

    Mike G.
     
  7. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    12,942
    ON, Canada
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    Newman
    Those rear springs dont match in static length which Im sure you know. Are you not concerned about different spring rates or are they somehow matched? Theres more than one way to skin a cat but my preference is 4 identical rear springs and shocks, boxer, testarossa, 400, doesn't matter.
     
    rubenpadron likes this.
  8. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    And no to both pumps failing at the same time. He'll replace them both then fix the real problem right after that.
     
    rubenpadron likes this.
  9. roger21

    roger21 Karting

    Aug 13, 2015
    234
    France
    Full Name:
    Stéphane
    Alas, Newman, I don’t know nothing about anything and even less about springs length.... :-(

    The man told me that the springs have been adjusted and calibrated, that’s all I know. Everything is on the car so I hope he would have noticed something wrong.
    (The rear shocks are replaced and are no more self leveling, the front ones have been rebuilt and I’ll keep the old parts for a potential rebuild. Don’t know the exact cost yet, somewhere between 2 and 3 K€, I’ll let you know)

    As for the pumps, Newman, I agree and I can’t see why they would both fail at the same moment but when I tell him about the Kjet stuff he answers that we must start from the pumps.

    That’s already been discussed in an other thread, as a non even amateur mechanic I don’t have the ability to contradict that guy who has been working on Fcars for more than 20 years...
    So as pumps are not so expensive (and rusted) let’s go for it and wait and see. Maybe I’ll never know as he might be proud enough to never admit a mistake!

    I hope to know more next week...
    Thanks again!
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Owner Consultant

    Dec 26, 2001
    12,942
    ON, Canada
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    Newman
    Then I guess you're okay....
     

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