430 ceramic brakes questions

Yellow brake calipers on a Ferrari does NOT mean they are CCBs.

-G.B.

 

1) No, as you can spec the colors you want e.g. My calipers are red and the brakes are ceramic

2) they are like most other ceramics and as such not advisable to perform emergency braking when cold. There are some threads where there have been incidents....

3) I think they are about the same but Ferrari does put them on their cars as an almost by default option

Having said all that I have found mine to be just fine

Go ahead with the purchase and enjoy

 

Yes, I had them on my GT3 (with yellow calipers), and now on my Stradale (with black calipers). They both feel about the same, the Ferrari units are quieter, plus the Ferrari units dont seem to delaminate like the 1st generation Porsche units did.

I hope it has them for you, but if not you will still like the look of yellow calipers.

 

Mine are black and CCB.

 

Most everyone knows this about Porsche but just in case:
standard unit: black calipers
S edition : red
beyond S : yellow

I like the CCBs on my 430 and they don't feel mushy at all. As previously stated, you can get your F with any color calipers regardless if steel or CC.

 

ccb brakes work ok around town, and are excellent on track.
the real problem with them, that i found out the hard way, is that they are susceptible to failure if the surface of the rotor is somehow compromised, which then means you need to replace them....and at 5k per corner that is NOT cool. IF i had the choice, i would not opt for them.

 

What's the point of getting the best sports car in the world without getting the best brakes for it?

 

+1

 

Up to 2007, all 430's came with steel brakes as standard and the ccm were optional.

In 2008 Ferrari made ccm brakes standard on all their cars and you could no longer get steel rotors.

The standard colour brake caliper on all 430's regardless of brake rotor material was black but you could order red, yellow or silver brake calipers as an option on any 430 for extra $$$ and it didn’t matter if the car had ccm or steel rotors.

My 430 is a 2008 so it came with the ccm brakes and it was claimed that under normal driving conditions? That they should never wear out when used for street. there now seems to be some question as to the accuracy of this statement.

If you do have a rotor failure the rotors must be replaced in pairs. i.e. if you damage the left front rotor both the left and right rotor would have to be replaced, so your $5000.00 repair suddenly becomes $10,000.00.

If you’re actually racing the car this just becomes part of your racing budget and who cares, but if you use the car regularly and plan on keeping it for long term it can become a major service expense.

Ten years from now when the car has depreciated to a value of $ 80,000.00 and somebody tells you that it’s going to cost $ 27,000.00 to service the brake system you will have heart palpitations! And don’t tell me it’s all part of owning a Ferrari, I've had my 328 for 25 years and factory ordered my 430.

If I had the choice when I ordered the car I would have ordered the steel brakes, for normal street driving they stop the car just as well as the ccm breaks, its only when on a race track when you are on the brakes 80% of the time that they make a difference.

 

Brett,

Re: Super cheap CCM's...

You really should read this thread...
http://www.clubscuderia.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/45155-Super-cheap-Brembo-CCM-s...-Possible

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. How much have you spent maintaining your 328?

Either a person keeps the car and pays whatever it takes to keep it running - or upgrades to the newer(est) model - or gets out of the brand because they find it to expensive to maintain the car.

 

I think what he's saying makes pretty good sense. In the future, spending 30% of the car's value on a full CCB replacement is a tough pill to swallow. That kind of repair or maintenance cost is usually only expected if there's a major drivetrain failure or rebuild, not for new brakes. True, you have to pay to play, but $27K is a lot of money. Hopefully, CCB replacement parts will become less expensive.

Regarding the OP's question...my 430 has the standard iron brakes - they're plenty good for street use. The pedal feels solid with good feel. With proper track pads and fluid, they're fine for light track use, too. No, they don't look as nice as the CCB's, but they're a lot less fragile and they bite even when cold. The brake dust isn't even that bad.

 

That's the myth. Unless you need new rotors (which is rare), it's more like 5K. When you look at how the CCB's last longer, the difference gets even smaller.

There's a reason why every Enzo, every CS, and ever Scud came with them. They're better.

 

They will have to come down. The owners that buy them new have the funds to lay out if something were to go wrong. On the secondary market, or after a few years, the cars will be worth less. If the brakes don't follow a similar depreciation curve my guess is that many potential buyers would steer away from a car with CCBs. (If a repair/replacement was in the near future)

You can ask the question ..."well what about cars that only had a CCB option?" This example would follow my thought process. Lets say a used 458 that has had some track time is for sale. Current buyer doesn't want to pay 20-30k for the brake system for a car that is 160k. This is of course assuming the price of replacement hasn't come down.

Im figuring (hoping) that as the 458 and other new Ferraris take a 40% or so hit in deprecation in 3-5 years that the CCB systems will as well. If this is the way that things will play out like the F1 system as standard, then there will be more parts available. I think as with anything that if its mainstream it will be cheaper. Or hopefully less than 30k .

 

The rotors do last a long time when used on the street, but what if one is damaged? It's still an expensive repair, especially if it's recommended that both sides be replaced. Things happen...a disk can be slightly defective and develop problems. CCB's are susceptible to chips and cracks, even from an accidental impact with a tool. It's unlikely, but it can happen.

CCB's are better, but really, for who, for what? For stopping from sane street speeds? I've never felt that the iron brakes were lacking. I'm not arguing with you, but CCB's aren't really necessary, especially when buying an older car. They're sharp looking and they do resist fade, but most owners will never tap into their full potential. Even the track guys...as you probably know, due to high replacement costs, many Porsche GT2/3 owners remove their PCCB's and install iron rotors. A high end iron brake system (Brembo, Stoptech, etc) is arguably as high performing as a CCB, nearly as light and costs less.

 

my first 2 fcars had the small brakes and i refused to accept a 3rd without CCB. CCBs where a must have on my list!

The look cant be beat

Love dem big bananas!!!
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Have owned a Porsche and a Ferrari with carbon ceramics and never found an issue with them on the street, even in close to freezing temps when the brakes were still ice cold. The one thing I love about them is the lack of brake dust.

 

No doubt the CCB's are better than the steel units. But if you are like me the 430 I have came with the small brakes. I track the car and found that if I put in the SRF brake fluid and Hawk DTC 60 pads the brakes hold up just fine. I will not have the braking power of the CCB's but I am used poor braking performance since I race a Mustang in a SCCA Club events.

 

If in the future, the cost of a complete CCB brake replacement is judged by the market to be too high proportionate to the value of the car, I suspect that people will simply swap out the CCBs for steel brake sets.

The "irony" (excuse the pun) is that the main advantage to CCBs is fade resistance on the track, but most people don't track their cars. And if you do, CCB replacement is very expensive. So what to serious track hounds do? They swap out the CCBs for steel. For the street, CCBs often stop less well when cold than many steel brake sets depending on the pads chosen. So for someone who drives 100% on the street, a steel brake set with pads that have great cold bite and decent fade resistance (e.g. StopTech Street Performance pads), may actually be win-win.

 

Noooooo! You could have made this work so easy!

 

Can someone list the replacement options? Thanks

 

No, the reason is hype and more profit.

The myth is that CCBs stop shorter. Stopping distance is determined by tires. They are more fade resistant with hard track use, but even there, you would need slicks to tell the difference. It's not like Ferrari's steel brakes were crap to begin with. Ferrari brakes were always among the best. Why do serious track guys swap them out for steel? Answer: whatever little performance there is to gain isn't worth it the cost.

I have tracked my 430 more than most people. I've never run it out of brakes. I put a set of corsas on it which allowed me to brake later and still have not had fade. A new set of steel rotors and pads costs about 3250. installed by a dealer. Aftermarket options are no doubt even less.

Dave

 

A interesting observation by the poster referring to the cost of the ccb's, vers value cost of the cars as the mass produced Ferraris continue to go down. In recent issues of Forza magazine they have done "buyer's guides" on the 550/575's ,believe they mentioned to replace the ccb's would be $32,000, and on the 612's, $25,000 dollars. On the 2008 & later 430's can they be changed to iron brakes, and what does it cost? Some one mentioned "incidents" regarding the 430's stopping when the ccb's are cold, in a panic stop, any guess what percentage of additional stopping distance the cold brakes are taking? I could that a real safety concern. Thanks!