430 challenge centerlock wheels for Scud

Trev- Just so nobody gets confused, the 458 has a 114.3 mm bolt circle compared to the 108 mm of the earlier cars. The wheels are not interchangeable for that reason.

 

Absolutely correct Terry. I have not listed PCD, offsets or weight at all and when selecting alloys all these details are critical, not only from a basic 'will it fit' but also how will handling be effected.

So many criteria need to be very carefully considered so unless you take the time to do your research properly I'd advise to stick with standard factory wheels. You can really mess up the handling if you don't know what your doing and go in blind...

 

So darn tempting to begin this project. What kind of cost are we looking at just to set up the hubs?

 

Wow. I checked eurospares and each hub comes up to approx £1290 inclusive of center lock nut. Not too bad. Wheels can be found relatively cheap. Wonder if Andrea Taurino still has some sets left.

 

Don't forget to fit these hub's you'll need to have CCM's to begin with. This conversion won't work with the factory standard road car steel's discs since they have no replaceable center hat.

Furthermore the F430 conversion requires swapping of the ABS ring sensors and re-calibration. I'd speak to Andrea about the ENTIRE conversion if i where you rather than trying to source bits from different suppliers.

I know you recently acquired CCM's (where they F430 380mm or Scud 398mm ones?) but also bear in mind that you'll still need the center bells from F430 Challenge car CCM discs when using with center lock hubs. - diameter is different so your discs wont just fit without converting them.

 

I bought a brand new set of Scuderia ceramic brakes. A kit from Taurino Racing would be the best solution. Thanks mate.

 

Trev,

I now have 99.9% of the bits and pieces to start my 360CS Centerlock Wheel Conversion. I've been working with Andrea Taurino at Taurino Racing. I'll be starting a separate thread to document the journey for those of you who are interested (and yes, I'll take lots and lots of pictures).

In talking with Andrea, he is concerned that the rear bells from the Challenge car will not work on the front. I told him I was virtually certain based upon your experience that the front bells don't work because of offset/caliper clearance issues but the rear bells from the Challenge car are a perfect fit. Can you please confirm that I'm not making things up? Thanks.

Rob

 

Rob,

I can indeed confirm that the F430 Challenge CCM disc rear center bell "hats" work with your existing Challege Stradale CCM "outer" donuts carbon ceramic material. This is the exact the configuration I run today!

What we are talking about here is converting your existing Strad CCM brakes to work with the original center bells which fit on the center lock hubs. I used 4 rear center bells, 2 on the front and 2 on the rear. This works because the 2mm gap is exactly the same front and rear on the CS brakes whereas only the REAR ccm's on the Challenge car have the same thickness discs as the CS discs. The FRONT ccm's on the Challenge are thicker by 2mm so use a deeper dish (see photo's) and because they are deeper you cannot get the calipers to fit. Hence using 4 rear discs bells (this applies to CS CCM/430 CCM only, not on the Scuderia since the Scud runs the SAME ccms thickness at both the front and rear as the challenge car so you just swap the bells over in that case or simplier use the original ccm's from the challenge car!).
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Further clarification;

CS/F430 Front CCM Rotor: 380 mm diameter x (34) mm thickness
CS/F430 Rear CCM Rotor: 350 mm diameter x (34) m thickness

F430 Challenge Front Rotor: 398 mm diameter x 36 mm thickness
F430 Challenge Rear Rotor: 350 mm diameter x (34) mm thickness <---

Since the CS disc thickness is 34mm all around (both front and rear) it uses a 2mm indent dishes to gain the correct caliper clearances. Hypothetically if the discs where thinner (say 32 mm) then the 'hats' would be completely flat.

Since the F430 Challenge front discs are thicker again at 36mm the dish gets even bigger again, now running at 4mm! Requiring wider calipers again! Only the Scuderia and F430 Challenge run such wide ccm's and only on the front. On the rear its the same thickness ccm's as used on the CS hence why we use the rears only! Remember diameter is not important in hat case since the disc itself determines the diameter, not the hat. The only important dimension we are interested in for the hats is the thickness of the disc.

Hope this helps to clarify...

 

Trev,

That's the understatement of the month. Thanks. This is EXACTLY what I needed!

Rob

 

Glad I could be of help.

 

We will be offering a adapter to the existing wheel bearing which can be mounted so that the challenge wheels can fit.

So basically we will be offering a more simple and cheaper alternative for mounting these challenge wheels to 360 and 430 .

more pictures and info will be released soon

 

Good idea but what kind of weight increase will this yield over stock center lock hubs?
Any pictures yet?

 

Bump. Waiting for an update.


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I'm with you. Looking for pictures, pricing, specs, what wheels, etc. Maybe not in that order but you get the idea.

 

It's a nice upgrade to tie up loose ends on my Scudie project....tie up...yes...that's the kind of tricks my mind is playing on me. My mates call it modification withdrawal syndrome.


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May i know what is the recommended torque spec for tightening bobbins between hat and CCM rotor.

 

Just completed conversion on my 360. So much thanks to all for this remarkable thread. Some basic (ok stupid) questions. Left side nut removal clockwise? Internal retaining clips automaticly retract on removal of nut? Now care n feeding suggestions; greasing the threads, torque wrench v torque multiplier, impact torque wrench off the ground then final torque wheels on the ground with torque wrench, storing socket and wrenche in the car. Missed anything? Thanks so much, again.

 

Post pictures please!

You remove the retaining spring first out of the SKF hub, it just clips out easily. Then you can undo the center nut. This is a safety feature. In fact they are designed with safety in mind hence they are REVERSE threaded nuts. I.e. driving backwards would in theory loosen them. Driving forwards actually tightens them [again in theory]. This analogy allows you to work out easily which way the nuts are threaded.

Just to re-iterate, your wheel fastening nut torques need to be done right (bedding torque 350 Nm, 3 times) then use 550 Nm.

 

This only effects the 430's, the 360's and CS use the same ABS wheel speed sensors as the F430 Challenge (Bosch ABS 5.3). On the Scud & F430 the ABS is a different version with ESP and Steering angle sensors and the wheel sensors must be swapped.

 

Ok just so I don't go hammering with an impact in the wrong direction the left side wheels with the RED nuts are taken OFF CLOCKWISE and the right side wheels with the YELLOW nuts are taken OFF COUNTERCLOCKWISE. Correct?