Today I checked and the scud bells are aluminum so no need to change for the challenge etc...
Interesting! Thanks for sharing this info. Q. So does that mean when Scud owners replace their CCM's all the CS owners should be begging/haggling to acquire their old Center Bells from the knackered CCM's? I only imagined there would be a market for used CCM's to make fancy wall clocks !!! ..That way CS owners can gain a big improvement in unsprung weight, improving handling and turn in characteristics quite a bit all by just swapping their center bells. Q. Do you remember and can you share with us the weight of the scud center bells? I know the CS ones [steel] where close to 2kg each (!) absolutely horrific! -T
Q. What are the '20 wheel pins'? I know that the CCM center bell fixings are 10 per wheel and they are interchangeable between Challenge CCM's discs and the Road car CS/430/Scud CCM's. So what are the 20 wheel pins your describing? (5 per wheels I'm assuming)? What are pins in your terminology? Q. Is this the right shopping list? Shopping list is thus; -- x2 430 Challenge, Front, Left or Right Steering Knuckle x2 430 Challenge, Rear, Left or Right Steering Knuckle x2 430 Challenge, Front, Left or Right Hub Bearing x2 430 Challenge, Rear, Left or Right Hub Bearing x2 430 Challenge, Center Lock, Wheel, Front 19" x 8.0" = (10.08kg) x2 430 Challenge, Center Lock, Wheel, Rear 19" x 10.5" = (11.94kg) x4 430 Challenge, Center Lock, Nut (2 colors available, gold/yellow or red) x4 430 Challenge, CCM Center bells [re use old fixings from original ccm's] -- Am I missing anything? Q. Steering Knuckles... are they really needed? Having investigated this a bit further by pestering my dealer today I noticed that you may well only need to replace the bearing and not the entire suspension knuckles, thus saving time and money. (hence why I have them shown in itallic in my above list]). You can see from my pictures of the bearings (note the 360/430 5-bolt bearing is UPSIDE DOWN on the pic, vs the 430 Challenge center lock bearing being the correct way up). They appear to have the exact same position for the bolt holes thus the question. I know as default they indeed can be supplied a single part (knuckle and bearing) but you can also buy the bearings seperately too. Did you investigate this? Can you shed any light on why you felt it was required to replace the suspension knuckles too ? (I don't know I'm just going from pictures)... See attached... Wheel Speed Connectors 360 vs 430 Also, I can happly confirm the bearing connectors between the 430 and 360 hubs are exactly the same connector loom. I don't yet know if they are the same electrical resistance but I'm guessing they are an exact fit and will just work. Again see pictures... Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I order all the right parts first time around. Cheers -T Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Latest Update: 1. Center Lock Bearing For anyone considering doing this 'conversion' on a regular 360/430/CS/Spider/Coupe I am now 99.9% sure that physically the center mount bearings (required for center lock wheels) will indeed fit directly onto your regular 360/430/CS steering knuckles. This means you don't actually have to change the steering knuckles to do this conversion. Your simply unbolting 4 bolts and replacing wheel to hub bearings with one that has a center lock rather than a 5 bolt pattern. Also from the looms look idential. 2. Center Lock Alloys & Tires The 430 Challenge center lock alloys are half an inch wider than the regular 360/430/Cs/Spider/coupe wheels. The dimensions (as already posted) are 430 Challenge Front: 19" x 8.0" [+0.5" wider rim] Rear: 19" x 10.5" [+0.5" wider rim] In terms of tire fitment on this size of rim; Front Rim Width's: 7.5" Min: 205 mm, Ideal: 215 mm or 225 mm, Max: 235 mm 8.0" Min: 215 mm, Ideal: 225 mm or 235 mm, Max: 245 mm Rear Rim Width's: 10.0" Min: 255 mm, Ideal: 265 mm or 275 mm, Max: 285 mm 10.5" Min: 265 mm, Ideal: 275 mm or 285 mm, Max: 295 mm This means the standard 360/430/cs/scud tires will just fit directly onto these Challenge rims without adverse effects. Another good news! Finally its worth noting that you must have CCM's or other center bell race fitted for this conversion to work (and the racing bell on steels would need to be exactly drilled out to match the diameter of the center mount with great precision, like SSR did with his Scud center bells). It wont work with factory steel brakes. The center apperture isn't wide enough to allow the center based hub to work. Here's the pics which make me convinced it will work... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
trev, this is indeed great help. im still sitting on the set of 430 single bolt challenge wheels with centre lock nuts and hubs. my problem is the hubs came with the bearings split apart. how do i reattach the hubs safely? frankly im not sure i even make any sense as im just relaying bits of what i remember from my mechanic, who himself seems rather unsure about what to do. arj ,if i decide to give up on this project ,i'll pm u if youre interested in picking up the bits i have for yr scud
Please post pictures to clarify this 'bearing split'. As far as I can tell the hub bearings cannot be split. You just bolt on a complete replacement bearing onto the original steering knuckle and plug in the loom connector. Here's the part numbers.. SKU Part No. 220562 - x1, Front Left Hand Hub Complete Bearing (32 on illustration) SKU Part No. 220558 - x1, Front Right Hand Hub Complete Bearing (32 on illustration) SKU Part No. 220731 - x2, Front Center Lock Alloy SKU Part No. 220734 - x2, Rear Center Lock Alloy SKU Part No. 223112 - x2, Left Hand Wheel Nut SKU Part No. 223113 - x2, Right Hand Wheel Nut Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks, I don't want people paying for more parts than strictly necessary. Equally I want to 100% ensure it actually works before people buy all this kit. I think until SSR actually drives the car I'd hold fire on trying to buy all this stuff yourself. Next I will be the first ' guinea pig ' to try this conversion on a 360. Once I've proved the abs wheel speed sensor work the same as on the 430 I'd recommend it then but not until I've proved it. Judging by the wiring which is the same (even same marking) and the the bearing itself looks identical, I'm sure it will 'just plug in an play' so if you want to try go for it! Biggest issue now is trying to find a spanner large enough to tighen these massive wheel nuts. Next step is to look in the 430 Challenge workshop manuals and get the recommended/correct Nm force required for tightening these wheel nuts properly and safely. Trev
Here's what the official press 430 Challenge pic looks like of the car with center lock wheels on... Tommorrow I'll recieve my 430 Challenge CCM center bell's weigh them and calculate the unsprung weight savings we are likely to see from the Challenge bells vs stock CS bells. As already posted 430 Scuderia already has aluminium bells but CS does NOT. A worth saving in unsprung weight for CS owners is to seek out used center bells from a Scud owner buying new CCM discs. T Image Unavailable, Please Login
And here's the alternative Red center nut (as apposed to the yellow/gold one)... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
More Center Lock pics (not mine, shamelessly taken from the Challenge area of this forum)... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Last couple of comparison pics (regular hub vs center lock hub)... From these angles you can clearly see the differences. The regular 5 stud pattern that normal wheel bolts affix through Vs the single center lock fixing. Its also worth pointing out the spring loading at the end of the center lock so the big nut cannot come undone during normal driving. Once the nut is tightened to its correct position the springs snap into place and prevent it coming loose. Hope that makes sense!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
-Yes owners of CS can get "old" alum scud bells,it is necessary to use NEW hardware for the disc (bolts and nuts) -The rotors are installed so I cant provide weights sorry but yes using alum will save a lot of unsprung weight.
REDS are for the Right side and GOLD for the left,the threat is made for each side. F1 cars use BLUE and RED for R and L side..
One side has reverse threat to prevent from coming loose and in the F1 world to recognize right from left threat nuts ... The Gold rocket thingy is the new F1 style security "nut" it auto locks the wheel so maybe we are old fashioned with the mod we are discussing ijijij In the other pic there is the new GTO FX nut system and there you can see that the used a CF center cap I used a new style OEM center cap modified and made a Nylar ring as a back plate with out a center cap the look was too racing for the street. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/album.php?albumid=289&pictureid=3785
The wheels where sanded and I will paint them like the scud wheel color,Challenge silver was to clear for the scud.
Re-read whole post, already posted the part no's. SKU Part No. 220562 - (2 of req'd), Front or Rear Left Hand Hub Complete Bearing (32 on illustration) SKU Part No. 220558 -(2 of req'd), Front or Rear Right Hand Hub Complete Bearing (32 on illustration) As already posted by SSR, Ferrari won't sell just the bearing seperately to the hub carrier, you must buy the complete package, i.e. bearing and hub carrier/knuckle as a complete thing. Unless your eligable for the 70% discount this isn't cheap!
