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430 Challenge Purchase Advice

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by Bodacious, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    I'm thinking about buying a used 430 Challenge strictly as a track car. I don't have a huge deal of experience on the track...twice at Porsche school in B'ham and some DE events. My intention is to do some of the major tracks on the east coast, mostly DE-type events (Chin, MVP, etc.). I have a 911 and an Aston as a DD, so I'm not looking for another road car.

    My question is whether or not, from those who have driven them, if the 430C is too much car for a "citizen" racer? They look awesome and I've always wanted to own a Ferrari. Acquisition cost is reasonable...any view on hours to replace brakes, overhaul engine, etc.?

    How would you compare the 430C to a 360CS, which is the other alternative (although I'd probably ruin any resale value by only using it on the track)?

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. redcar1

    redcar1 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    626
    austin, tx
    Full Name:
    Mark
    430C is a VERY fast track car. Probably overkill for DEs, but don't let anyone discourage you. You can run the car without a dealership or Pro level support, but you'll need some specialized stuff. Bigass impact for the wheel nut, air jack wand, fuel pumpout rig etc...

    Engine&Trans are very robust and operating costs not bad. To get the most from the car you need fresh slicks$$$. The factory Ceramic brakes are crazy, but you can replace with steel.

    430C is on another planet for tracking from 360CS. Hardcore tracking of a 360CS will hurt resale, but with a 430C that's what they're made for.

    The car's are really very well balanced and pretty easy to go quickly.

    Mark
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    11,637
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    If you are relatively close to the beginning of the track learning curve might a 360 or even 355 challenge not offer considerable cost saving without greatly diminishing the experience
     
  5. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    I have thought about trying out a 360 Challenge car instead of jumping into the 430 but don't see any on the market. It would also allow me the opportunity to trade cars (which is why my dealers love me) in a couple of years! Any view on performance and handling of the 360 Challenge vs. the 430?
     
  6. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Thanks Mark. Any view on the 360 Challenge cars?

    Thanks.

    jeff
     
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  8. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
    2,116
    san mateo, ca
    #6 mousecatcher, Apr 13, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
    Not at all, but as you are very inexperienced I highly recommend getting a momentum car instead. A spec miata, for example, or even better, a spec racer ford. Then pony up for some professional instruction. Either car is easily resold later.

    The skills you will learn in a year will then allow you to enjoy the performance that the 430C can offer. Without real experience, you are wasting your money. Plus, next year when the 458C comes out, there will be a sudden glut of 430C's.
     
  9. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Understand your point but I unfortunately don't dream about driving a Miata or Ford. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that many of the folks that drive them might be better drivers than I am likely to ever be but that's the way of it. Any view on instruction ... I have some pro help through the dealer, but is there somewhere in particular you find exceptional?
     
  10. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
    Speak to Anthony Cheshire at FF Corse.

    FF Corse was set up after Ferrari GB scrapped its Fiorano Ferrari programme so that all the technicians are factory trained. They continue to run nearly all of the Fiorano Ferrari members' cars.

    Anthony runs the operation and can point you to cars for sale, can compare running costs of 360 and 430 and arrange track days, instruction, storage, transport etc. for you.

    I am a very impressed member of Fiorano Ferrari/FF Corse and have no commercial links with Anthony.

    Any more questions pm me.

    Ian
     
  11. ROULEUR

    ROULEUR Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2008
    305
    Atlanta, Ga
    Full Name:
    Chris C
    I know that we have a new one available, last one in the country. Also, Arnie has a line on quite a few pre owned cars from our last Challenge series. I can put you in touch with him if you would like. He will forget more about Challenge than most will ever know. Let me know if we can help. Check us out at www.fwash.com to see our store and feel free to PM if you need anything.
     
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  13. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
    2,116
    san mateo, ca
    skip barber
     
  14. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,780
    NAPLES
    It really depends on your future goals. Do you want to have a Ferrari track car or become a better driver.

    If you go out and buy a 430 CH you'll be fast, but you will never understand the limits of the car. I promise you. The 430 is that good.

    I would spend money on coaching and/or driving schools. A spec miata is a good choice or a formula ford.

    If you really insist on buying a ferrari track car. I would buy a 355 Challenge. Much cheaper!!
    You would have enough money left over to buy 10 spec miata's, driving lessons, and an open wheel car.

    FYI, Any mistake on the track with the 430 is a costly one. Seen it happen many times!!! Too much car not enough driver!
     
  15. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Yeah, easy to do a Barber course. You think better than the Porsche program? I thought that was excellent, but don't have a point of comparison.
     
  16. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
     
  17. Izza

    Izza Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,046
    London
     
  18. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,057
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    Having raced both a 360C and a 430C, i'd highly recommend the 360C first.

    Most 360C cars have been updated with the GT Areo package which in addition to making them incredible looking the tremendous downforce makes the car very very easy to drive. Four friends of mine have taken that recommendation and begun tracking and racing the 360C and love it. Also the 360C are an amazing bargin. A 100K buys a good one. And the car will never depreciate and have half the running costs of a 430C

    I would not recommend running it yourself. For 300-500 per day there are a host of Teams that will support the car at the track for you. This is also important for safety.

    Also you can use the money saved on purchase and running costs on a pro driving coach (about 1k per day which can often be split with another driver). I'd also get a trackmate so the coach can teach you with the Data.

    It's Ferrari racing on a "relative" budget
     
  19. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,439
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter
    #16 ProCoach, Apr 19, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
    I just finished three days working with a pair of drivers, one in an F430 Challenge and another in a 360 Challenge, preparing and coaching them through the SCCA VIR Double National races.

    The F430C driver (with two years of Challenge experience) in his first SCCA double race finished 9th and then 6th OA in the 40+ car "big bore" (GT-1/T-A/GT-2/STO/WC GT/T2/GT-3) field and turned times on SCCA mandated treaded tires that exceeded all but one of the slick-shod GT3 Cup cars running a class higher. He was less than six tenths of a second off the ST lap record!

    We used the Traqmate/ChaseCam system to improve his times six seconds a lap on average over three days. The MM WinTax added some more information that was interesting, but not particularly useful. The 360C driver had a reasonable time too and enjoyed his "new" car on this challenging track.

    I've worked with another "track day only" F430 Challenge driver (who moved up from a 360 CS) at VIR for a Club Day to help him become better "acquainted" with the car. He was raving over the additional torsional rigidity and the improvement in the overall experience after driving the F430C.

    I can say concretely that for a sensible driver willing to learn and take measured and carefully calculated steps as they gain experience that the F430 Challenge car is NOT "too much car for the citizen racer." It is simply sublime and a superb piece of kit. It is important to have competent crew and the proper pit equipment. Also, don't skimp on tires. They're your only connection with Mother Earth! :D

    From an absolute performance perspective, there is only a marginal difference for most drivers. Either car is more than capable of outstripping most all driver's capability and capacity, but that's what makes them such great tools. After working with both cars, I think the F430C is the best package allowing "citizen" drivers a confidence inspiring, stiff and stable platform from which to work on their own skills. In short, it's not "too much car" for what you say you want to do with it and for your experience level, IMPO. YMMV, of course.

    I'd be delighted to help you learn the car at VIR or any other SE track. Best of luck.
     
  20. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Thanks everyone for the insights. There are a couple of 430Cs on the market, but i have not seen any 360Cs. If anyone knows of one, I'm interested in taking a look.

    Thanks again for some great help! Moving forward...

    jeff

    P.S. I can guaranty you there will be a pro coach helping out here.
     
  21. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Sep 15, 2004
    5,439
    VIR Raceway
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Hahaha! Have fun in your search and enjoy!
     
  22. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Who knows...it may be you! We'll have to chat when the time is right.

    Thanks again.
     
  23. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3

    Dec 13, 2004
    1,780
    NAPLES
    SpeedWorks in orlando has one for sale. Its orange. It has the GT front and wing.
     
  24. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Thanks! I'll give them a call.
     
  25. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    Just remove the CCB rotors and replace with steel.

    In talking to dealers supporting F430C in the Challenge series, and some owners, the front rotors are good for two races, and the rear rotors good for three races. Their replacement cost is pretty high (over $20k). For the Ferrari Challenge, it is mandatory to run CCB, for SCCA, NASA, and track day events, steel rotors are either required or recommended.

    You can run the F430C on Hoosier R6, Michelin PSC, Toyo R888 if you're not racing, and save on operating costs.

    The cars are very reliable, as shown on the Ferrari Challenge series (long sprint races), ALMS, FIA-GT2, FIA-GT3, SCCA and NASA.

    They are great cars for the money.
     
  26. Bodacious

    Bodacious Rookie

    Apr 19, 2007
    33
    Everyone I talk to that has had the CCB (including Porsche's) has changed over to steel...
     
  27. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    12,136
    ny
    i hate to rain on anyones parade but i disagree with a novice using a 439c for drivers ed. why not get a street 430 which will be much more in line with the driver's ability? will take years to reach that cars limits if it ever happens.
     
  28. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,057
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #25 johnhoughtaling, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
    Because it is VERY dangerous to crash a street 430 on the track at anywhere near the limit. A scary thing. The challenge cars with the cage, belts and Hans are safe.

    A 360C with GT areo, is also much easier to drive than a street 430 on the track.
     

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