430 F1 slow engaging into 1st

I drove my 2005 430 F1 this last weekend which, to me, it seemed as if the clutch engagement from stop to 1st gear took longer than normal. I had to back off the acelerator more than usual to let the clutch grab 1st gear.

Is this a sign of clutch going out? I have around 14k miles on it.

Once engaged in first the clutch acted normal when shifting from 1st all the way up. No slipping.

Is there a software update to the 2005 F1 that will help engage into 1st gear quicker?

I test drove a 2009 599 which engaged into first gear 10 times better than the 430. Is this the same clutch and gear box as the 2005 430?

Thanks for the help

 

That could very true in my case. After I test drove the 599 then the next day drove the 430-------it just did not engage fast as the 599 into 1st gear. However, once in first gear and shifting to the rest of the gears (up and down) it was fine. I sure as hell better not test drive the 458 from what I have heard about the dual clutch.

I spoke with the calabasas service dept and the san jose service dept. regarding if there was any type of software or adjusting that can be done to remedy this "pause" going into 1st. I got two different answers belive it or not.

Calabasas stated that they could adjust the settings(?) to make the engagment happen quicker and that there is no software to upload. He also stated that a 2005 compared to a 2009 takes the same length of time to engage into 1st gear so that there was no difference between the two except one clutch may have less miles than the other, which may have a factor in the time getting to 1st.

San Jose service dept. stated that there is no adjustment that could be made to have the 430 engage quicker into 1st. The rest of what he stated is the same as the service manager at Calabasas stated.

They both stated that the 599 clutch is a little better than the 430.

So, can you make an adjustment to the 430 to engage quicker into first?-----------Or Not

Does anbody have experince with this?

 

I usualy drive the 430 in race mode. From stop to 1st gear seemed like 3 seconds (i could be wrong I need to time it officialy).

Could some fellow 430 owner time thier gear change from stop to 1st? In a "normal" take off. Not so much looking for a launch type of take-off but rather a take off if you were at a stop light.

How many seconds does the scuderia take to engage into first?

And for those that have a 458 how many seconds does that dual clutch take to hit first gear from a stop position?

I am very interested in this becuase i am in the market to purchase / trade in a couple of my vehicles to acquire a new or newer Ferrari (maybe a 458 or scud or 599).

Getting an average of those that have these cars would be a helpfull tool in deciding.


your comments would greatly be appreciative

 

I will give that a try today since it is Sunday.

The way I have been starting is---------- pull the paddle into first from neutral (or reverse) then slightly step on the accelerator until the "clutch" is engaged. Thats when I get the pause and need to back off the accelerator until the clutch fully engages.

From your statement above, you always go to neutral at stop lights and after backing up? in order for the slight blip to happen?

 

sorry my mistake,

Thank you for the reply to this post. I was hoping to get some more F1 people to share thier times and ideas about the F1 going from neutral to first (length of time for the clutch engagement).

I am not sure if I have a legitimate problem with the clutch or just been spoiled by the 599 test drive?

 

Your test is a good method rather than seconds. When I was stating neutral to first gear engagement-------I was meaning the same thing as your statement. However when I did your test, this is what happened.

When I apply the 20% throttle it seems the 1st engages around 1 1/2 car lengths however, but when I apply more throttle to the engine (or clutch) at the 1 1/2 car length, it seems to bog down to lower rpms then pick up to normal clutch engagement. with that said, that process takes about 2 car lengths before it gets to around 3k rpms at which you can step on the throttle good with instant rpm movement.

Do you think that my clutch is not fully engaged untill around 3k rpms? it seemed as if it engaged at 2k rpms but the bog down starts if I apply more gas at that rpm.

To fully engage the clutch, meaning to step on the throttle and have instant rpm/car movement (rather than bog down), it takes you 1 car length?

Your feed back was very helpfull thank you

Do other 430 owners have the 1 car length before fully engaged? I would love to hear from you

 

And a better gear box from what I have been told.

I also test drove a maserati gts 2009 which seem to have a better gear box than the 430. And i also was told that gear box in the maser was a better than 599 gear box.

My problem may well be that i have drove a better gear box and now am, expecting more out of the 430.

Or, my clutch may be going out. I live about 3 hours away from the dealer(s), that is why I am hoping to have some forum support regarding if the 430 clutch is going out or if there is a adjustment that can be done?-----------before I take it to the dealer.

I am not comparing "Apples to Oranges". I would rather say i tasted a better bottle of wine than what I am currently drinking. I am getting close to test driving the 458 as well.

By the way, you know were I stand on that "Apples to Oranges" theory--------- Mr. bdelp.

Good one. lol


So Mr. bdelp, can you help me? You are very well versed in the 430's. If you were to take the test that "Trent" set up--------at what rpm/car length does your spyder get to clutch engagement into 1st as to where you can step on the throttle with no bog down in rpms?

Or is it a early sign that my clutch is going out?

 

When my rpms go down while the clutch is engaging into 1st------that process seems to take longer than your video. At that point is when I feel like I need to give it more throttle and when i do--------thats when i get the bog down.

By the way excelent feed back and response to my question------thank you for the video.

I will try to make a video, one just as yours to compare, accept I will not give it throttle, instead i will give it the steady 20% as you did until it reaches full clutch engagement.

By the way I may have found an adjustment called the PIS which is the "Point of Initial Slip" which can be set by the SD3. My question is------------can the PIS be adjusted to take up the slack, another words----get quicker to engagement to 1st?--------------Or, is it just a set point that can be only be set at one setting and not be adjusted---------another words, the 430 may get off from that set point and may need to be put back to that one set point?

Has anybody heard of this PIS?----------and being set with the SD3?-------please explain if have ran accross this setting.

Again thanks Trent for the great response and video.

 

I have just finished reading what is avalible on the search "PIS".

It seems that callabasas may be right in adjusting the clutch, meaning most likly the PIS set point. I am not sure why san jose did not state that?

It seems that Ferrari has the factory set point when the clutch is new. However, that set point may need to be "adjusted" due to changes with useage of the clutch life. With that said, say the factory setting is 5.2 (guessing), after useage of the clutch/miles this set point may need to be at 4.8. It would depend on wear of the clutch and other items associated with it. It makes sense that when the plate wears down, the sensor would be further away from it, creating the need to move the set point that was original there from factory. This would mean for every F1 clutch, that set point, PIS, would be different for each vehicle after useage. The Ferrari mechacanic should be trained in the usage of the SD3 and adjusting the PIS at these Ferrari service centers.

From what I have read (searched) on this forum, having the slow engaement and lag into 1st gear (F1) is a symptom of this PIS possibly. Also going into reverse with high slipage may also be a symptom.

From what other chatters have stated is you can tell a big difference once this setting is correct for your car.

I have close to 15k on mine which I drive the heck out of mine so, it would make sense that this PIS may be off a tad. I belive I realized this mostly after test driving the 599 and F1 maserati.

I will still try to get a video of the rpms at take off, to confirm that I may have slippage going into first.

Or it may be time to trade up to the 458 dual clutch.

 

Just needed to wrap this thread up.

I took the 430 in to change / check the pis setting. The tech stated he tried the 4.8 setting which thru a slow down light. the tech explained that the throw out bearing was sticking sometimes and sometimes not. So when he went to the sd3 re-learn---------thats when he would get the slow down light. The clutch it self has 62% left on it.

Becuase of the sticking throw out bearing he could not adjust the pis to the quicker shifting setting at 4.8 and that is why I got a bog down when stepping on the accelerator.

He recomended to replace the throw out bearing.

He put the car back to the way it was originaly and I drove it home.

Normally the pis can be set if the clutch has enough wear on it that you notice it as I. However, It could not be done in my case. I will give it a new clutch replacement rather than just a throw out bearing soon.

So, with that said, I did notice a change in the shifting as suspected and the 599 is a better clutch which made the 430 shift really noticeable. Hopefully this info will help another fellow chatter if you run down my same path as I.

my best