For that matter, I see you have 355 - one of my all time [and sentimental] favorites. Beautiful car. Enjoy.
Sad but true. When I was waiting for the 430 specs to come out, I was just hoping a stick would still be available (I had a deposit without even knowing what the car would be like). I was even more surprised 599's came with sticks still, but I'd bet that soon there will be only 7 speed paddle cars. I figure I'll keep buying 3 pedal cars until they are no more (probably soon). Dave
I owned both 360 Manual and 430 F1 before. I do agree that the 360's Manual Tranny was as bad as it could be from today's standard. Currently I have a 430 SIX SPEED MANUAL, even from my so so driving skill, I can tell you it's as sleek, fast as any other newest big name brand sports cars on the market. It would be nice making some cruical comments before you REALLY have put 500 miles or so on a 6 Spd Manual F430, no offence. This forum has been giving me so many first hand and important Info. I personally take it very seriously. Unfortunately, sometimes I have to think hard on some threads and make sure if it's true or not.
I have both a 6 speed stick and the F1 (spider and coupe respectively). They provide totally different driving experiences - NOT that one is better than the other - both are great - just different. And the differences are totally subjective. The manual is seamless from cold start up and through the gears. Obviously, as with any manual, there is more involvement. Heal and toe downshifts are always great when done perfectly and I find that my size 12 feet are particularly good for accomplishing them in the 430! Can I shift faster in the manual than the F1? - nope. Do I care generally? - nope. I do feel that launching the 6 speed is easier (and I don't feel that I am putting tons of wear on the tranny when I am taking off aggressively). If we had the Launch Control, I might think otherwise (except for tranny wear and tear, of course). The F1 is a marvel of engineering and technology. It shifts REALLY FAST. It matches revs perfectly and I find that I can focus on a line more as it snaps off shifts or holds gears in everything from on ramps, decreasing radius turns or on an off camber turn. Can I do the same in the manual? Probably, but NOT consistently. And I tend to shift more in the F1, as strange as it sounds. As a result, I find that the F1 keeps the car in the powerband better.
Thank you for the neutral post! Although most of the 360's and 430's are F1s, you'd never know on Fchat b/c it seems that so many are consistantly knocking the F1's. I don't get it. Do manual driver's post more on this forum than the F1 guys? Can someone start a poll on how many F1 owners vs. manuals.
My pleasure Hamdog - fact is something with a stick and clutch is more macho than paddles - I admit it. Having said that, each has its own attributes that must be evaluated in terms of how you drive and what you expect. In then end, you will chose what suits you I hope rather than following the herd. And, hey, if you are ever in NY and want to try both, let me know. Life is too short to not experience what life has to offer. Cheers,
Couldn't agree more. I just want to clear one thing, the 430's Manual Transmission is not carried over from yesterday's technology. There is no argument I could never shift faster from a 6spd manual than a F1, period. As for the never ending deabte: F1 or 6Spd? I suppose we all agree that's your preference...since the money came out of your pocket. And I don't believe any F430 6spd owner would like to knock out the better fitted F1, only the passion of controlling a stick shift.
I noticed the same thing when I was doing the research on the F1-6 Speed debate. First, I'm sure that you have noticed the regularity with which this topic appears. While it certainly is a valid question, you will find that many of the posts that appear in different threads are by the same small group of posters. We can all agree that the vast majority of 430s are built with the F1. The 6 speeds are thus an anomoly, statistically speaking. You should expect that the buyers of these anomolous cars will have a strong sense of the special and under-appreciated merit of their cars. I speak as an expert on this subject, I'm almost always the guys that takes the road less traveled I test drove a 6 Speed F430 because I was sure that it was what I wanted. More on that in a moment... I have a theory: there are two types of buyers of the 6 Speed 430s: First, he guys that wanted this tranny from the beginning, sought it out, and either found one used, or ordered the car that way. I have read that some of our brethren waited for several years to get a 6 speed slot. It would be unreasonable to expect anything other than a strongly pro-6 speed opinion from these guys. Does that make them wrong? No. But its like going to Charlotte Motor Speedway on a Nascar weekend and asking, "which is more betterer, Nascar or them fairies drivin' them Formla One cars?" You know the answer you are going to get; if is virtually defined by the demographic to whom the question is posed. Does that make it so? To bubba, it does. (Six speed guys, I'm not sayin' your're a Bubba, just givin' a zample. I'm a 6 Speed guy too, just not in my F430) The other group of 6 speeders are the guys who wanted an F430 and just happened to find a 6 Speed version that was immediately available. When I was looking for my car, I had the chance to buy three different F430 6 Speeds, they seemed to be everywhere at the time, and about $10K cheaper than the F1 cars I was looking at. (Boardwalk Ferrari in Plano had a beautiful Black 6 Speed with 300 miles on it that I came a whisper from buying after flying out to have a look. Beverly Hills also had a red/tan with challenge wheels with ultra low miles). I'm afraid that you won't get an objective response from this second group, as they are likely going to want to justify their decision, post purchase. In the end, you have to decide what you want and why. I did not like the F1 when I first drove it. I found it boring. However, I wanted to experience the modern Ferrari thing, and because I am an ardent Formula 1 fan, I decided to give it a shot. (My salesman also told me I would do better on resale with the Scuderia comes calling, and he had 2 6 Speed cars to offer me off the floor . I now believe that I made the right choice, as measured by the singularly important question: If I could do it again, would I still choose the F1? My answer, a resounding YES. The more I drive it, the more I like it, and it is an important part of the Ferrari experience for ME. All my other cars are 6 speeds. Will that change the opinion of the 6 Speed lovers? Of course not. This cannot be boiled down to a question of which is best, any more than the question of which is better, chocolate or vanilla. Its all a matter of taste. However, it would behoove us, everyone, to make sure we have sampled both before we venture to chime in
And, hey, if you are ever in NY and want to try both, let me know. Life is too short to not experience what life has to offer. Absolutely!
However, it would behoove us, everyone, to make sure we have sampled both before we venture to chime in [/QUOTE] Amen!
Check out this one, I was the original owner and it's a great car. http://www.ferrarichat.com/ferrariads/showproduct.php?product=295&cat=2 Gary
Of all the cars I ever drove ,I find the 360 the most fun to drive. The car just asks for your attention and demands full concentration the moment you start it. It even demands respect...Everytime again I feel I have to get better in working the clutch and shifts. I also like to just have one hand on the shiftknob while driving... I can not imagine where to put my right hand otherwise ;-) Do you F1 drivers always have both hands on the steering wheel ? To be honest I never drove a F1 Ferrari . The nearest thing was the tiptronic of my porsche 996, which I hardly ever used. I like the looks of the aluminium shiftgear. Even the sound of the metal touching while changing gear is addictive.The car looks more complete also.I have the illusion that I am more in controle or in touch with the engine.The F1 looks like a bull without horns. It's less masculine to me. Anyhow ,this is my first Ferrari and thought it would be smart to get the manual gearbox as long as it's available. This is only my opinion and I respect any one elses...
+1. Also, during daily driving in a 6 spd I enjoy depressing the clutch at various speeds and tapping the throttle just to listen to the engine and exhaust sing, its addictive. F1 definite advantage on the track and enjoyable when you first use it because on its amazing percision but in long run would become boring.
Press both paddles simultaneously at any speed to go to neutral, tap the throttle all you want, then at any point press the up shift paddle to resume in the appropriate gear. The more I drive the F1 the more I enjoy it. Don't knock F1.
I've done that and it just doesn't seem the same. Not at all trying to knock F1. Its rifle-like precision action with matched revs ia addictive as well. Was just adding another thought on manual to Stef's nice post. IMO he has my ultimate: F1 coupe and 6spd spider which gives best of both! btw, i do have a toyota camry and honda odyssey both for sale if you're ever looking for a trade. I think an interesting thread would be what percentage of the time do F1 drivers use automatic mode vs paddles. Suspect that would mostly have to do with traffic...
LOL! I was worried about the same thing - albeit for a different reason - "how do I blip at my friends now?" I think it actually puts it in the *next* gear up (from where-ever you last were? seems like that's what happens on mine), but either way who cares, if you are blipping you obviously aren't engaged. I was worried it would go back to 1st.
I just switched. F1 by a few orders of magnitude. There's less to do, but technology moves on. It's superhuman.
Why not just fit a Playstation controller and ditch the steering wheel too? I know most 13yr olds would love that idea! In fact why not go the next evolutionary step and let the car drive itself via satellite navigation GPS? Can we be even trusted to drive anymore? After all its only evolution, right? Think this is too far fetched? Already UK's TV programme Top Gear have tested a specially adapted prototype BMW that does this exact thing around their test track (actually racing around the track, not driving at pedestrian speeds either!). Surely it wont be long before we become passengers in our own cars at this rate of "evolution" ;( Humans have no place driving anymore, they are not superhuman right? Driving a manual Ferrari on a sunny day in good clear road conditions doesnt get much better. It is challenging to get each gearshift right, you feel more in control shifting the gears yourself. I've asked many 360 Challenge pro-racers and they actually don't particularly like the f1 shift compared to the enjoyment they get with manual's. Heel and toe-ing is just so much fun you must try it once in your life. The metal slotted gate on the 360 is a wonderfully tactile experience. I'm surprised so many people knock it to be honest. And for what? To jump on the evolution bandwagon? You can understand Ferrari's reluctance to embrace manual's these day when their entire marketing campaign is around technology transfer from F1 (blah blah blah). Well they would say that when it costs them so much to run the F1 team every year (yes, even they have to justify the money to their shareholders and parent company Fiat). A Manual is very easy to enjoy, it is an absolute pleasure to shift and the clutch on a 360 is light and easy to modulate. Its also less hard on the clutch (assuming you are!) and manouvering the car into tight parking spaces is a breeze in a manual (manual parking is another thing thats being engineered out, the LS Lexus springs to mind). Try driving each type (automatic and manual) before you discount either. On the open road the performance thing is miniscule, as people have said unless you regularly circuit race your Ferrari it doesn't really matter, both carbon brakes and flappy paddles dont matter - they are all garnish, just stuff that costs money and has more complexity to go wrong when it does fail or need servicing. Even when Ferarri finally get their shifts down to 30ms (thats the fastest their engineers say its technically possible to shift in - the 430S is 60ms) I'll still keep my manual thanks and regular steering wheel and turn off the ASR and drive the thing myself. The whole point of driving these wonderful machines is to be enjoying the driving, learning and feeling great when you get it all right. I like to think of it as a perfect balance of man and machnine as one, not machine and machine with the human just along for the ride
Personally, I found the F1 box in the 430 to be more than a little flummoxed by city traffic (e.g. in Hong Kong). I think the manual is still a better option until Ferrari can get the F1 box properly sorted out. Yes it's better than it used to be, but a manual will be much smoother if you know how to drive.
I'm a big fan of both! What I don't understand is why people spend so much time convincing us how much better and more satisfying the manual system is over the F1. There is a 99.9% chance that if you own a Ferrari, at some point you have owned a manual car. We have experienced both and we've chosen the F1 for our F car. We know how to shift gears and we know how to heal and toe. The better a manual driver you are, the more you can appreciate the F1 transmission and all the tech that's behind it. It IS possible to love both systems.
True, I know paddle car owners who were/are racers but I also know many paddle car owners who have never even heard of a "heel/toe downshift" let alone be able to execute one. I have often wondered how many paddle car owners can even drive a stick or are very poor at it. I doubt there are many on Fchat and fewer still would admit to it, but I find it curious that the market for 8 cylinder Ferraris really took off with the introduction of paddles while the market for 550's tanked at the same time. Thoughts? Dave
Interesting thread. I have pondered this question too. But I have not been trying to figure out which is better overall. I have tried to figure out which I like to drive better and I like may be others have struggled to figure this question out. I have enjoyed reading all the posts. The issue for me is on several points, first is which do I enjoy driving more. My first F355 was a manual and I loved it. I sold my other sports car and bought the F355. I was sold on the F355 after my first test drive. The F355 was direct and connected and every time I matched the revs I smiled. I found myself trying to figure out where I could drive it to to drive it more. I decided I could drive it to work occasionally. I found myself putting more miles on it than I ever thought I would. Then later I drove a F355 F1. I hated it. It just felt wrong to me. Again I spoke to my dealer this time about a 360. The first 360 I drove was an F1. It was improved over the F355, but I still was not happy with the way it drove and made me feel. I then drove a manual 360 and it was better than the F355 manual it was terrific, but some of that was the chassis and the engine but the manual was still my favorite. I now find myself interested in a F430 and again I am faced with the F1 vs. manual question. I have had the pleasure of driving a F1. It is brilliant, wonderful to drive. It is so much better than any previous F1s I have driven in the past. Like some have said already it seems matched to the car. But back in the depths of my mind I am still wondering about what a manual F430 is like to drive. There is no doubt that on the track there is nothing that beats the F1 and no matter how good one is at driving a manual F430 you can not match the F1. Unlike us humans it doesn't make any mistakes. It will take an average driver and make he / she superhuman (Schumacher). The second aspect of the decision is maintenance. Everything is fine when it is under warranty. What is the maintenance after the warranty when we have to pay for it. Has anyone experienced this yet? Another aspect which has been mentioned is resale. This part is not one I really think about. Like several have mentioned and I have experienced the same thing is no real trouble selling a manual car. Lastly it is hard to be particular when it is so difficult to get the car to begin with. So how many of you have decided on a F1 or manual because that is what was available at the time? Thanks.
As with the 360 the dealer over promoted the F1, so now the manual bring more of a premium than the F1. The F1 does have higher possibility of leaving you stranded in the middle of no where, and only hope is a flat bed. Where as the manual would give you plenty of warning that it is almost gone. The 430 is designed around the F1, so that's why the F1 feels so perfect with the 430. There are some operating techniques that allows the F1 clutch to last longer, but overall you are still at the mercy of the software programming. Whereas the manual, is entirely up to the driver. I have driven both manual and F1 and honestly I like them both very much, they both have their own unique characters. The F1 makes give me a great appreciation of the newer technology in the Ferrari cars, the manual when heel and toed perfectly on a down shift is the most gratifying feeling in the world. So it is a tough call for me as far as which one to own. But one thing I know that wins me over everytime is the replacement cost. The manual wins.
