http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/532275-f430-mt-shifting-issue.html This thread has been in the 360/430 forum but I'm posting here so maybe someone else can help. Anyone with a manual shift transmission of any marque encountered this problem before? Any advice welcome.. Thanks.
Mine did and it was the TOB. Was your TOB replaced with a new one (I know you said clutch parts were replaced)?
Pretty sure everything with the clutch was replaced. I will double check with my mechanic though. Thanks.
An internal gearbox problem is possible. They really don't like having coolant mixed with the oil. There are a few things to check before tearing into it. If the shifter/linkage works when cold I doubt it's your problem. What clutch parts were installed? Some aftermarket clutches are problematic. If it isn't OEM, it could be your problem. Try bleeding the clutch hydraulics again using a pressure bleeder. A small air bubble could prevent the clutch from releasing completely. If it's dragging even a little, it can make shifting difficult. When things heat up, it could be worse. I expect this might fix it. If necessary, it could be possible to adjust clutch pedal travel a little to give just a little more stroke. What kind of gear oil are you using? Have you added any friction modifiers? If so, how much?
Thank you for your help. Really appreciate it. The problem existed before the clutch replacement. The clutch wasn't that worn. I was just desperate to correct this problem so I had it replaced as well. Pretty sure we used aftermarket parts from Ricambi. I'm dropping the car off again in the morning for TPMS problem. I will get answers to the other questions. I know we've been using Redline oil for years.
Redline shockproof gear oil or something along that line. Friction modifiers added. Entire clutch was replaced. Flywheel, plates, TOB, everything. Slave cylinder, heat exchanger was damaged and leaking fluid. Maybe as suggested that caused damage internally. I was mistaken. The cables and linkage move freely even inside the transmission when the car is hot. He disconnected the cables and removed side panel from transmission. Everything moved freely. He thinks it's an internal transmission problem. I mentioned pressure bleeder and didn't get much response. l guess my next step is F of Ft Laud for a diagnostic. It's time for a fresh set of eyes to look at it. I hope there is a rebuild kit available. I know it's an almighty Ferrari but it's still just a manual shift transmission.
Before pulling the gearbox and spending the big money. Make sure that the clutch is releasing completely when it's hot. If it is dragging, even a little (especially if there's a bit too much friction modifier in the gearbox), it will be difficult to shift. As things heat up, it's likely that things expand and your clutch isn't releasing enough. A little more clutch pedal travel might just do it.
Thanks Tim. I passed this info along. Appreciate your help a lot. Also. What kind of gear oil and friction modifier would you recommend? I'm going to try everything before the transmission comes out
A lot run Redline 75w90ns as I did. (no modifier) I Just switched to Redline MT-90 which is a straight manual trans oil. Seems good. I would try that before digging deeper.
I agree with 2NA as far as checking clutch drag/bearing issues spinning the main shaft. I would suspect an internal gearbox issue with one of the selectors, selector rail, or possibly a shifted or worn bushing. Having an oil sample from the gearbox could tell you a lot. Interested in what the final outcome is...
Thank you. My mechanic agrees. He cannot see anything other than internal problem now. If you recall the heat exchanger was bad and coolant was mixed into the transmission oil. That was corrected. I'm thinking the damage occurred then. This was discovered last spring. I have a line on a brand new transmission and I think I'm going for it. I cannot see how it can be anything else at this point. Master cylinder system has been bled again and again. Cables move freely. I can't see how an inch or so of extra clutch play at the pedal can help. Its too stiff when hot Or should I pull transmission and take it to a transmission specialist? I just want it fixed. New transmission is $15K which isn't bad. But I would rather rebuild mine if possible. Kind of lost on what to do here. Taking it to F of Ft lauderdale will cost more than 15K for sure. I will keep everyone posted. Thanks again.
We have rebuilt many gearboxes and trans-axles over the years, very often a damaged component can be found easily, fixed, and upgraded with little cost compared to blindly buying another unit. I was in your exact position a month ago for my 911 trans-axle. I decided to rebuild the one I had while replacing the broken thrust washer, and ordered a stronger updated gearbox. It won't be correct to my car but strength is more important to me than matching numbers in this build. I will be selling my rebuilt unit to offset the costs of the upgraded transmission. FYI my replacement thrust washer cost $36 compared to $4,000 for a newer box. I was expecting a lot worse than just a washer, and the rest of the guts looked immaculate. I think a tear-down would be in your best interest - checking bearings, gears, wear spots along the way, if they all look good then rebuilding might be the obvious answer. Best of Luck
Thank you Michael. Very good advice. I appreciate it. This feels like the best decision. I'm going to pull the transmission and get it checked out. I'll let you know. Best..
Not play, travel. An inch is a lot! A half inch more might be enough. It would only take 20 minutes to try it before taking everything apart and spending $$$. It's your car.
Thanks Tim. I will print out everything. I asked in the FL section and found a Ferrari trained technician locally who is going to take a look. You know cars way better than me. Thanks again. Hopefully a simple fix.
At last. Here's the problem. It makes sense. Ferrari trained independent repaired it . I pick up tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice. CONCERN Customer concern about stick shift get harder when vehicle takes normal temperature. 1 0.00 0.00T Labor Removed and reinstall gear box 1 1,800.00 1,800.00T Labor Performed drive test and duplicated customer complaint. Disconnected shifter cables and test it! Ok at this time. Removed internal transmission selector to check selection and engagement movements, no found faulty parts. Performed phone call to customer, to request permission to open gear box, customer agree and approval over the phone. Removed gear box, and opening on the bench, removed all gears shaft and check for all tolerances between gears, all ok at this time. split all gears one by one. Cover all parts with parts cleaner overnight. Dry and recheck for every single component. Found scrollable for synchronizer 3RD and 4TH gears with rust on it. Replaced part for use one in good condition, and reinstalled all gears on the shaft back together, lube and reinstalled shaft with gear inside the box. Reinstalled transmission in the car, fill gear box with new Shell Spirax 80W90 and replaced oil for E-Diff bleed clutch pedal and reinstalled all components back. Performed road test to verify normal operation after engine get normal temperature of function. Car drives as manufacture specifications after repair. 1 3,960.00 3,960.00T Part Scrollable of 3rd and 4th 1 190.00 190.00T Part Gear box oil Shell Spirax 80w90 1 60.00 60.00T ACTIVITY QTY RATE AMOUNT Part E-Diff oil 1 75.00 75.00T Shop Supply 1 45.00 45.00T car wash:car wash 1 0.00 0.00T 2008 Ferrari F430 Spyder 24162 miles **customer pay $1800with check #2402 on 8/24/17 new total balance due $4697.80** SUBTOTAL 6,130.00 TAX (6%) 367.80 TOTAL 6,497.80 BALANCE DUE $6,497.80
I had the same issue and after all the above mentioned suggestions I had to replace the box... After 5+ years of shiffting issues I am glad to have this sorter
I forgot to mention that Danny at Modena Eurosports in Ft Lauderdale diagnosed and fixed the problem. He is Ferrari factory trained .Now he has his own shop. Highly recommended.
I'm reviving this thread because the problem is worse than ever. It never really went away. It was about 60-70 % better after I picked it up in 2017 but as the years went on, it got worse and worse. Trans was removed and completely disassembled . Every part inspected to tolerance and one or two were replaced. I have barely driven it the last 5 years because it's so annoying to drive in present condition. 4 months ago shifter cable snapped bc transmission was frozen up and would not shift. I parked it. We sold our 458 last week, so now I'm trying to repair this one. We try to take this one out to enjoy but I get annoyed every time I drive it. Transmission is basically inoperable after 15min. First 15 are gold. Question. Can I buy a used F1 trans and use the guts of it in my MT unit? I don' think my transmission can be repaired. Everything has been replaced and checked and rechecked again and again. EVERYTHING. And I mean everything. People from all over the world have weighed in on this issue and apparently it cannot be resolved. I am going to repair or replace this transmission within 6 months or I am going to set the ***** on fire. I'm not kidding. That's how fed up I am. I bought my dream car in dec 09 and it functioned properly for about 2-3 years. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f430-mt-shifting-issue.532275/
Have you replaced the shifter bushing that is located on the actual lever you change gears with? Hill engineering makes a replacment bushing that replaces the plastic one. This is a very typical symptom of that bushing being broken.
Yes. Twice. Used Hill's both times. That was first thing that was done. Replaced again in 2017, just to make sure. Every conceivable problematic part has been replaced.
Seen that before, same symptoms anyway. . Never had to take gearbox out to fix it. The 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks slide on a rod. The bushings can bind on the rod especially when hot and when you shift the fork or forks will not move independantly of the rod. It is as though you are trying to engage 2 gears at once and the shift interlocks will not let that happen. Easy fix.
He did state that the heat exchanger failed previously, do you think latent corrosion is causing it to bind? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app