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430 Scuds that don’t sell for years

Discussion in '360/430' started by OneFastM3, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Pads or discs ?
     
  2. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    As the owner of 2 Ferrari’s I can assure you that expensive maintenance is not exclusive to McLaren, and I believe all modern sports cars will have questionable long term servicing issues. I can’t think think of any car especially a spider that comes close to the 675 overall. Ferrari 458/488(scuttle shake, Lamborghini Huracan, the car only fits short people. These debates never go anywhere, everyone should just drive what makes them happy, I’ve made my choices.
     
  3. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #228 LightGuy, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    Me too.

    I prefer and own older Ferraris and Porsches although the Siren song of a Mclaren at these prices is VERY tempting.
    My young car nut nephew is a Mclaren disciple. I blame him for this Mclaren dalliance. ;)

    However my next addition will be another "older" depreciated Ferrari. My first paddle shift car. For me long term appreciation is priority #1 in "toys".
    That strategy has served me well.

    Waiting on some stars to align before I can purchase.

    From your avatar I assume you have or had a 996TT. One of my cars is a 996 GT2. $$$$ wise it checks the boxes. Both underappreciated...for now.
     
  4. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    I find it interesting that you found the 650 and 675 similar, that’s not been my experience at all.
     
  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    Both. The wear was not even either, the rears were going out more quickly than the fronts.
     
  6. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    Mkay... blitz quiz, which one is an LT interior and which one is a 650S interior?

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    Without google imaging, the one on the left is a 650S because of the screen and more fripperies and looks familiar. But maybe I’m wrong..
     
  8. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    The interior is identical except the LT does not have the climate controls on the door. I’m guessing that your remark was tongue and cheek, but my remark would more than likely be consistent with most people that have meaningful experience with both the 650 and 675. It would be equally absurd for to say my 430 is the equivalent car to your Scuderia because they look similar. McLaren states that the 675 is 60% new from a 650 and the engine components are 50% new. However you’re right the interiors do look the same, of course the driving experience will be the same, what was I thinking. Thank you for your sharing your well-considered insights with us.
     
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  9. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #234 freshmeat, Aug 7, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    *shrugs* and yes the interior quiz was a candid metaphor; but with that said I like to believe part of the experience is some level of the spectacle to it all...if you step into a cockpit of one car and into another that is 98% identical, wouldn’t you agree some of the spectacle/specialness is lost?

    And I shared an opinion based on a pretty “meaningful experience” of both cars in their natural habitat (on track) back to back albeit with nannies enabled coz they were not my cars.

    Same generous owners who let me ring out a few laps, share the same opinion so I don’t think I’m speaking out of turn. Seems like folks who only have ever driven an LT and never a 650S have this weird tendency to discount the 650S...

    Have you driven both on the track?

    And if you want to speak comparatively, driving a 430 vs Scud is pretty night and day...650S vs LT is more like dusk to evening. And if you compare the performance figures, it’s more dramatic between the 430/Scud but the 650/LT it’s far less dramatic, almost identical in fact! Just some objective observations here not subjective ones.
     
    redcaruser likes this.
  10. tstuli

    tstuli Rookie

    Jun 12, 2018
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    There’s way more than 4 or 5 total in Canada. There’s no less than 3 currently sitting on autotrader for sale right now alone. I know of at least 4 others that are owned.
     
  11. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

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    Oh man, what happen to all the cheap scuds for sale. Looking at autotrader and cars.com, I think the prices are climbing. Any thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  12. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    I fully agree fresmeat. I remember: in first test comparisons one wondered why the LT is not faster than a 650S (https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/test/mclaren-675lt/ "Longtail does not keep its promises"). In "real life" the effective weight difference was measured to a few kilograms, depending on how you configured a 650S (for example bucket seats, which make up the largest weight difference), nobody really knows where the promised 100 kilograms should be. The LT sounds faster (exhaust sound), this is a fact. But also a LT does not sound as good as a Scuderia, in fact, the sound is far away of the the incomparable screaming of a Scud. The LT has a different steering ratio which leads to the fact that it is often annoying in normal traffic with the LT because of a far too large turning circle. Regarding driving in public traffic there is another annoying effect, the LT is about 1.5cm lower than a 650S and the overhang at the front is much longer, the ongoing scratching on the ground you have to like. Then the axle width is also different, the LT is 2cm (front/rear) wider. Here is to say that most owners widen the 650S, mine is 3cm (front) and 4cm (rear) wider. 25hp more? Maybe, maybe not. The effective power difference actually moves within the normal tolerance of these M838-engines.

    Would I buy an 675LT? Of course! An ingenious car, as well as the 650S.
     
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  13. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    I wouldn’t say it’s going up or down; the range for a good non-storied example has consistently been in the same $190-220k range for like the last decade...
     
    flash32 likes this.
  14. _JERRY_

    _JERRY_ Karting

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    There's more to it than the price i think, at least where i'm from, the scuds are all in really bad condition. 4-5 owners, car's been abused(and modified extensively), probably the only reason for selling is that there are hefty outstanding repairs to be done to get it back to A1 condition.

    Depending on how the car is treated, in my opinion, mileage doesnt show anything. 2000 miles of heavy abuse daily on a track is gonna be worse than 60,000 miles of normal daily driving.

    Imagine a kid, driving his daddy's 3rd or 4th car, with the mindset that he's gonna redline after every traffic light turns green.
     
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  15. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    #240 stan996turbo, Aug 8, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    My only concern before buying the 675 was ground clearance, and I can say that it has been completely not a issue, I’ve not used the lift once, my 430(lowered to European spec) scapes the ground more. Many 650 owners like to believe the 650 is just like the 675 but that’s just fantasy. The LT is over 200 pounds lighter, with a P1 suspension components and steering rack among many other things(60% new from a 650) and it feels just like a 650? That’s a tough case to make unless you’re a 650 owner (redcaruser) ;). I wanted to add the 650 to go with my 550 Maranello but after driving it I came away with the impression that the car was fast but to polite and had no soul so I ended up with my 430. Fast forward, I still have my 430, which I love, for when I want the loud race car feel for the street. But the 675 is a completely different animal, it has a much broader range of abilities from the 430 and yes I driven my 675 on the track along with my Ferrari. McLaren doesn’t use the Ferrari gimmicks like overly quick steering ratios loud exhaust and edging throttle response(458) and short gearing to make their cars feel racy, they take a more comprehensive approach to raising their cars performance capabilities.
    This is a pointless debate, we should all drive what we like, I’ve made my choices.
    As far as the reports that the 675 didn’t provide objective performance improvements over the 650 see below:
    I have my mind made up don’t confuse me with the facts:

    Randy Pobst lap times at Willow Springs
    675LT 1:24.29
    650. 1:25.88
    https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow-springs
     
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  16. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    I think this is a good summary of the 675
     
  17. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    Many 675LT owners like to believe the 675LT is such an incredible special car...
    As the saying goes: the belief moves mountains.
    Comprehensibly. They have to justify their massive higher investments and the unfortunate game of McLaren in some way. As you say, a pointless debate.
    Enjoy your "completely different animal"!
     
  18. stan996turbo

    stan996turbo Formula Junior

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    I give up you’re right and all the reviews from professionals including the one I posted and owners that mimicked my opinions are wrong and ill informed. Since your obviously immune to acceptance of empirical information maybe we can now debate today being Thursday, I say it is, what say you;)
     
  19. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    People have been using these kind of excuses to compare the CS to the 360 Modena for years. And the F430 to the 430 Scuderia. The constant whinging about them being so similar but humans are 99.999% the same as a chimp. Yes subtle differences really DO matter!

    The Simple truth is they are much more centered around the driver in philosophy so they feel quite different and that makes pushing them harder quite a bit more enjoyable. Yes depending on how well they are specificed there is considerable overlap between models. It's similar story on the 360. If you specified carbon engine bay, carbon seats, racing harnesses, racing style exhaust and ecu's, f1 shift and a whole plethora of alcantara which was available to specify you got quite close to a CS. Never reaching it but close in weight and much better to drive. The CS or Scuderia specified well then just carried on where those other cars left off.

    Exactly same with the LT and the 12C / 650s. Carbon seats, Akrapovic ti exhaust, LT rims with wider track and full complement of CF extras get you a lot of the way to weight reductions of an LT, hell a decat and a good remap yields over 700hp on the 12c alone. Throw in turbo upgrade and a few bits and your seeing 950hp if you so wish. Ofcourse the devil however is in the detail and things like the P1 lightweight suspension arms, the geometry changes, the uprated spring rates, the important ecu calibrations all contribute to transformation of the car into a true drivers dream. Almost exactly same blueprint used as for the CS by the way. Much better aesthetics aside only drivers that really push a car hard will get the most benefits... Personally I Love the 675LT... Exactly like the CS in my book..
     
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  20. redcaruser

    redcaruser Formula 3
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    What I'm saying is that, at the very end, I give a **** on what the so-called "professionals" say. I test these cars by myself and then make my own decision. I consider reviews as an invitation to critically question them. Because we all know, marketing is everywhere. If I wouldn't act this way a 720S were currently my car, and soon its LT version. Your LT would be nowhere, like my 650S, all already obsolete products. Read the reports, the 720S has blown everything away, and the LT will blow everything away again. Go stan996turbo, run and order!
    Howsoever and as I said, your 675LT is a sensational car. But, and unfortunately, the 650S is just not bad either. For me the LT did not met all the big announced promises, it wasn't and it isn't the "completely different animal". Yes, I had exciting offers for an exchange, but at the very end this car has not found its way into my garage. Sorry for that!
    Ask me if the 650S is so much better than its predecessor 12C? My answer: drive the two and you will see, no, it is not. Also with these two cars the following applies, at the end it is a question of personal taste. A McLaren is a McLaren.
     
    Manda racing likes this.
  21. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    Can't agree more....they drive like they were made by different companies.
     
  22. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

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    LOL, they sold.....because THAT is where the market is. The dealers with the $200k+ cars (with miles above say 5,000) have been sitting forever and will continue to do so.
     
  23. Tamahal

    Tamahal Formula Junior

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    Kanwar t Mahal
    I agree...


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    Shark01 likes this.
  24. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    Hmmm you can buy a Scud or have a 430 couple and a 430 spider for the same price in Switzerland, the Scud is certainly not twice as good by any means and thats part of the problem why we over 100 Scuds for sale in Europe, which are not selling and just sit.

    Daniel/Redcaruser did you sell your Scud or just added a MClaren ?
     
  25. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    Easy, I don't want a standard 430....at all.....the Scuderia is just that damn much better.
     
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