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430 Scuds that don’t sell for years

Discussion in '360/430' started by OneFastM3, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Of course I can...but that doesn't generate an "official" number. Only more speculation threads, like this one. I have no idea what the exact production number is, but I am certain it is greater than 2200...perhaps a great deal more.
     
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  3. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    The number that always makes sense to me is 2,500 Scuderias and 500 16M.
     
  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    And good to be you...a Scuderia AND a huge e rection......I have no Scuderia and have to take a microscope on dates.
     
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  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    #104 freshmeat, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
    Makes no sense to me because at the time of the Scuderia/16M, because FACT: The factory was only capable of cranking out 3,500-4,000 cars annually...so in order for the above numbers to be realistic, you or any other speculator would be saying at least 50% of the factory's annual production output for 2 years was dedicated to just Scuds/16Ms...

    I don't see that being realistic, but I, like everyone else who doesn't work at the factory, is simply speculating.

    Also, there was an fchatter from europe (russell16m) that used published European delivery numbers against global % distribution numbers to get to a ballpark figure for this and if memory serves me right his guesstimate was closer to the 1,500-1,800 range. His rationale was that if Europe historically only gets 10% of cars and murika got 20% (or something along those lines) then scud/16m distribution numbers would also be consistent to that and since he knew how many scud/16m's there were in europe he extrapolated the numbers by continent based off that.
     
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  6. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Two sources online say your numbers are incorrect. Ferrari was consistently exceeding 5000 units a year from 2005. Ferrari production in 2008 was 6587 and for 2009 was 6250.
     
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  8. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    #106 freshmeat, Jul 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019

    "Ferrari used to keep 7,500 as an approximate production cap in order to maintain the exclusivity of the supercar brand. However, they are increasing their production cap and hope to produce up to 10,000 cars!

    Ferrari annual production grew from about 4,000 in the 1990s to 5,000 in 2005 all the way to about 6,500 in 2010. Current production is around 8,000 cars.

    In 2015, Ferrari produced 7,664 cars (record sales for the company!)

    In 2016, Ferrari produced 8,014 cars. Definitely another new record!"

    I think the range I used is accurate; there was a world recession at the time of the Scud/16M, so overall production would've been significantly reduced. Nothing says that production numbers grew at a constant rate year over year; it just states production number has grown over time and during times of growth more cars were made.

    And I got the 3,500-4,000 range from an old printed article from Forza magazine which I believe to be a reputable source.
     
  9. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    The charts I see in a google search reflect the recession...very little growth in 2008, then a dip in 2009 and 2010, then back up in 2011.
     

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  10. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    No, he only knew about England...a tiny market so not accurate to scale up from at all, and people rightly called him on it all the time. Look, they made a documented 1,300+ Challenge Stradales in one model year....entirely possible to get 3,000 cars in two. And look at the numbers of CS vs Scuderia on the market at any given time, always 2-3X difference.
     
  11. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Also, when looking at used F430s, look at how few 2008 and 2009 F430 coupes or spiders are available for sale in the USA, and compare with Scuderias and 16M. There are more of those for sale than 08 and 09 F430s.
    Again, all highly speculative for us to say 3,000, but the number is surely well over 2,000 combined 08 and 09 production.
     
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  13. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    3,000 would be roughly 50% of total production numbers for just 1 limited model...knowing what we know now since Ferrari IPO'd, the total number of limited models don't seem to ever have hit that percentage/volume, and we know for a fact that over the past decade Ferrari has been producing larger and larger volumes of limited models...so are you saying based on these speculative figures that Ferrari's limited model production is now close to 60-70% of total production?

    Seems like a stretch no?
     
  14. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    #111 f355spider, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    First, I am not supporting the 3,000 figure, that was someone else's speculation, not mine. If Ferrari's combined production for 2008/2009 is 12,837 cars, then say 2,200 430 Scuderias is only (roughly) 17% of total production. (I'm not even saying 2,200 is an accurate 430 Scuderia production number, but I am saying it is entirely plausible, based on total production numbers for the two year period)
     
  15. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    If scud production was low it wldnt beba secret.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  16. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Excellent point
     
  17. F430giallomodena

    F430giallomodena Formula Junior

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    Funny to see how people change their minds...I can recall you saying that the Scud was the best car when you had one, now it is not even better than an F430 spider (which is most probably the best spider since you own one) and I recall also that the CS was the best car when you had one (guessing now it's isn't anymore) . Now Porsche makes the best cars in the world cause obviously you have "some".
    I had 2 Scuderia and an F430 plus a 458 and I can say that the 430 Scuderia is far much more than a normal F430, I agree that the Superfast2 gearbox adds 50% of the improvements, but there are many things where the Scuderia has improved compared to the F430.Lots of things.
     
  18. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

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    No better than lying about the numbers...which persists and hence the generic / ambiguous 1 of 4xx badging...so ya, everything is still a secret, still open to speculation, still a mystery.
     
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  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    not at all - we know how many CS, f40s were made, f50s, enzos etc...are those off by a few percent, sure. have we ever seen a scud or speciale number? no.
     
  20. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    How many CS' are there?

    I've read sources first claiming 378 and then over the years that figure has gradually grown to 1,288. Again, that's a pretty significant delta (more than a few percent) for allegedly an inanimate object that can't reproduce lol.
     
  21. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    a rough benchmark seems to be half as many CS very produced as the Scuderia, don't forget that in 2007-2009 the world economy nosedived and Ferrari cranked out Scuds without orders with the 2 tone interior like no tomorrow, whilst many of their smaller suppliers simply went bankrupt
     
  22. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari might have made the best cars in the world in between 2003-2009 but the competition has moved on massively since then, I am glad that Ferrari has announced the SF90 Stradale cos its the only place they can go, but Ferrari as a car company on a P/E of 40, I am massively short their shares girls, I put my money where my mouth is
     
  23. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    Depends on who you believe...I am sure Stokpro has a pretty good idea, but I am not sure he will publicly give a number
    Here is what the internet says:
    . Challenge Stradale production numbers
    Ferrari has never released an official statement regarding the total production of the Challenge Stradale.
    However, there are several production numbers posted by different sources on the internet.


    378 reported by Cavallino Magazine. source
    852 reported by Evo Magazine March 2009. source
    1167 reported by Ferraridatabase.com (website is offline now). source
    1200 reported by Guiseppe Bonollo to Evo Mag. "A total of 17500 360s were produced over 5 years of production. 10000 were coupes, made up of 8500 standard coupes, 1200 CS's and 300 race cars. The remaining 7500 were Spiders." source
    1274 reported by Matthias Urban on the website f-register.com
    listed in the "Ferrari - Road and Racing" book by Winston Goodfellow (2005) source
    source
    1288 reported by Michael Sheehan in April 2013 article. "Total 360 Modena production is around 16000 to 18000 including the Challenge Stradale with around 1288 “official” units." source
     
  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    for the CS there are approx 400 in the USA and 1300 globally - those numbers have been consistent with guys who track vins as well as with my conversations with dealer and FNA etc...when i was looking at scuds and doing some due dili, my contact at FNA said the total numbers was at least 2x without counting 16Ms.
     
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  25. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    #122 RichardCH, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    and I might have loved my SCUD more than anything else in 2011-2014 but the world has moved on BIG TIME, we can all live in the past if we want to
     
  26. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    so there were 1,500 SCUDs produced globally or 3,000 ?
     
  27. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    #124 RichardCH, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    I am not denying there were 4,000+ GT3 991.1 RS produced but u should all be happy as you might have the chance to own one, its a much better car, the 488 GTB is certainly faster but sadly lacks all emotions
     
  28. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    if thats question was directed for me the numbers ive used in my head are 3K suds and 750 16ms globally.
     

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