Ok, stupid question, but I suppose I will ask it anyway. I know nobody can really predict this, but based on the Challenge Stradale's ability to hold value - isn't a Scud a no brainer? Let's just say you were going to spend $140k on a normal 430, an extra 50k gets you a Scud. I know it's 50k more, but over the course of 5 to 10 years, isn't that 50k going to be money essentially saved if the Scud holds it's value like a CS? Or is the general feeling that it isn't going to hold it's value like the CS? Sorry if this has been asked. I did do a search
no brainer... but not for value but because scuderia is different animal than 430. totally. I=m not sure with the value compare to CS. CS is very rare car I believe under 1000 pieces made. For Scuderia I did not found the production numbers but here in europe is quite a lot on market now and I'm sure the production was way bigger than CS. I'd guess 3k at least
1250 CS produced. Prices are high here too but no CS has been sold on autoscout in the last 6 month. Scuderia is now offered at good prices but you are Always going to loose money on these cars. You buy F430 at 100k and it will be 50k in few years. You buy Scud at 150K and it will be 100K in few years.
1288 CS's. 1650 Scuds. Scud prices have moved up in the UK in the last 4 years so it has been a pretty good bet (CS has done even better). Scud >CS>458
Russel, I agree with what you say but prices moving up does not mean they are going to sell...there are lots of Scuds here above 150k none of them has ever been sold...few of them are listed since last spring (over 1 year now) ...the only way you can sell them is lowering prices. Same for CS, 11 CS on Autoscout Switzerland listed since beginnin of last century..LOL.. none of them sold...what's the purpose of pushing up prices if cars do not sell for those amounts? I bought a Scud last week, but I had a good discount on its selling price, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it...
IMO, the Scud will continue to depreciate, but not at the same degree as the F430. If you can afford the extra $$, it's worth it just for the 60ms shifts.
I can only speak with authority on the UK market, the prices being achieved have moved up over the last 4 years, Scuds are selling at £150k and there are currently only 2 available at F car dealers with adverts asking for cars. I realise we have a limited stock of RHD cars with only 165 Scuds produced and approximately only 80 of these left in the country after the usual export drain to the Southern Hemisphere. The current interest in CS/Scud/16M is huge and I'm currently getting a dealer a week asking after my car - a polite rebuff always follows since what would be the replacement?
Agreed...SF2 is IMO best gearbox Ferrari has ever produced... 16M is a very rare car, but I am thinking for exemple at Barchetta or Superamerica...when I bought my 360 those cars where offered at very high prices...low production numbers and very requested. Now you can get them for good money and noone seems to be interested anymore...My Fdealer has a Superamerica in stock...he said me impossible to sell..10 years old car no one is interested, would rather buy a 458 for that price. I strongly belive this will happen to Scud and 16M/CS too...in 10 years probably new buyers will buy Speciale or even the next one for less than the Scuderia is now sold at..I won't either...in 2020 I will probably pick a Speciale at 150K instead of a 16M at 130K
RM just sold a super america for 274K http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-ferrari-market/446975-strong-money-%40rm-monaco-today.html After writing this just found one offered for 235 at F of Newport Beach. Don't know the story but that car has around 7K miles. Seems prices are reasonably strong for that car though.
Agree from both standpoints. A: Seems like you have a better chance of it becoming a more desirable car with an increasing price (if that has not already started to happen). B: you really do get a lot for the extra money. Amazing gearbox. Tons of carbon fiber, racing seats, massive brakes (398MM front), very light wheels/titanium lugs, improved power and power output profile (more down low), etc etc The parts alone seem to more than cover the spread. For that matter, if you want even more rarity--go with a 16M. Only 499 and not too much of a premium...
I get cars when its pleasure and utility match what I consider its worth. So I expect to pay for and not get back a certain amount for a certain car over time. The SCUD is a No brainer. It is likely to hold value much better than the f430 and does pack a lot of value with the upgrades, and driving excitement. I don't buy cars as an investment but like the idea that it won't lose as much money as other cars (e.g. AMG). I think it is a little similar to when I got my 997GT2. I bought it 3 years ago when it was priced at its lowest. I kept for 2.5 years and put 10k miles on it. Was able to sell it for what I paid for it, pretty much had it for free. If I sold it 6 months earlier I could of got another $15k, because the market on this car was moving up and down depending on how many were on the market at a time. Once owners saw how much they were being listed for, it went from 2 cars to 15 cars and that dropped the price big time. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
wow...but do they sell for those prices? I mean...there are F430 for 160-170K here...but who will ever buy?
The mistake that many make is buying any of these cars thinking in the back of your mind as some sort of investment. Unless you are the top of the food chain and have a La Ferrari coming soon. All of these cars depreciate badly, obviously some more than others. You may buy a Scud, because it is more exclusive, better gearbox, and more powerful than F430, just as the CS is the same to the 360 Modena. Buy the Scud if you like the Faster gearbox, more hp, and YOU CAN CURRENTLY AFFORD The $170K price. If you mostly keep it in your garage for the next 3 years and trade up, you will essentially pay $50K for driving the Scud for only 2000 miles. If you keep it, the value doesn't really matter. Heck, if you are talking value at that 170K price, buy a used 2012 Mclaren MP4-12C with mandatory factory ECU upgrades to 616 HP with DRS and improved airbrake function and lap all the Scuds, 458's, and Speciale's around the local track and get more attention driving around town from the lay public from the "gull-wing" doors-if that is your thing!
1288 is a known number, right? (wasn't it reported by Ferrari? I honestly can't recall) 1650 is not. Put accurately, its your speculation. But you continue to write it here as if fact. You can write what you want, but it would be more honest to say "I believe" or "I extrapolated and came up with" or something so that people don't read your number and ascribe some official-ness to it. Fwiw, my speculation is there are more scuds that 1650. Regadless, they are great cars and I would love to own one someday.
I think the Scud is less likely to depreciate than a F430, similar to what has happened with the 360 and the CS. The CS and the Scuderia are special cars and regular rules of depreciation do not seem to necessarily apply to them. Neither is an "investment," so you can't assume that you will be making money, but both the CS and Scuderia have the potential to remain pretty stable in pricing in the near future. The CS in particular seems to be moving up now if anything. Definitely go for the Scuderia over a F430 if you can afford it.
Get the Scud if you want a race car like feel and rarity. Get the F430 if you want a "luxurious" exotic ride. Value wise, I think the Scud will be the better choice in the long run.
The rhd scuderia values are going up in the uk, quickly. All have sold, for the past couple of weeks there has been no coupes for sale. Now there are two £150k and £170k. They haven't depreciated at all in past 3-4 years. The US market is clearly different on this model
One way to back into the figure is the following: 1. Get public data on how many scuds were registered in the UK. Someone here should have access to that--I just don't know where to look. 2. The % of cars that go to the UK is roughly known. 3. Calculate total production and about how many are in the US (% of ferrari's that go to the US is roughly known as well for the years 2008 and 2009). I seem to recall someone did these calcs for the scud in a previous post. Just don't remember the figures. Anyway, I think the methodology is reasonably sound and all the inputs roughly verifiable.
Ferrari UK published figures until 2005, these were divided into World production by model and UK sales by model. Although World figures by model are no longer produced, UK figures continue to be published. The number of Scuds I quoted is an 'extrapolation' of UK sales which I understand are the only known accurate production figures for the Scud. The extrapolation uses the historic production figures for Ferrari's and compares it to market distribution. 1650 represents a mid point, the low and high numbers are 1500 and 1833 respectively. The market share % used fits with the known numbers of 360's, CS's, Barchetta's, Superamerica's, 16M's and 599 GTO's. The only model with known figures that falls outside of the standard market share % is the Enzo and since this was a car you were invited to buy it is probably not unexpected that it doesn't follow the rules.
Russell's numbers seem like a reasonable fact based extrapolation. Seems better than guessing. A few hundred difference in the number of units produced may or may not have an effect on prices. Demand will. There were 4000 Ford GT's built and they sell for at least 100,000 dollars over their original price of 150,000 dollars. So production numbers aren't the whole answer to prices rising or falling.
According to DVLA's "how many left " site there are 61 cars currently licensed, and 29 on SORN currently in the UK. Numbers appear to have dropped from over 120 cars 4 or 5 years ago suggesting we are losing cars to export. Hope this helps.
+1, there is a small group of owners that are trying to invent some sort of rarity that isn't there. Whenever I look at the number of cars for sale, there have always been 3X to 4X more Scuds on sale than CS. I would rather look at hard numbers than some sort of extrapolation using a small market country. The true test of long term Scud value will occur in the next 12-18 months as 458s get into the $190k price area.
