450S #4509 to RM - Monterey 2022 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

450S #4509 to RM - Monterey 2022

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by italiancars, Mar 4, 2022.

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  1. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    I was contracted to trace the origin of the chassis and the entire package. I had the car in my possession for close to a year. I worked with a renowned restoration shop, owned by a very significant collector to evaluate exactly what was in the package. I traveled to Modena with a former VP of Maserati (who started their Classiche program) we interviewed a number of retired Maserati employees that were involved with the race program at the time.

    Conclusion approximately 80% original tipo 151 parts including body, engine from 151/1 #002 (as sold by DeTomaso to Panini). many original auxiliary pieces from #004. Chassis which had various claims of being the remains of 151/3 #002 which was destroyed at Le Mans in ‘65 (it’s not, we did however locate what survived), another claim was it was a 4th chassis built for a wool merchant in Italy that was never constructed and found in a junk yard in Italy (completely bogus), other claims are even more bogus.

    The chassis was built in the late 70’s in Germany of mild steel.
     
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  2. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2008
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    I know where there is an original chassis…but unfortunately, it’s very, very difficult access.
     
  3. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    ‘assuming you mean the buried remains of #004? Be aware even if you were able to gain access to its final resting spot. According to Chuck Jones, more damage was done by the bulldozer burying it than the wreck that destroyed the car. Add 60 years underground.
     
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  4. 3500 GT

    3500 GT Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2008
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    #29 3500 GT, Jul 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2022
    Oh yes…I’m well aware of that! It was run over and crushed more than once.
     
  5. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Under a ballgame stadium.
     
  6. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    its been a week, more information?
     
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  7. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    No naive buyer has emerged here, to the contrary, hence no more information...or should I say disinformation shall be dropped by the owner -or his contacts- whoever he is...that is how I read the situation.
     
  8. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    Just like Jimmy Hoffa ... allegedly.
     
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  9. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    The bitsa Tipo 151 kit is not in the Monterey auctions, just read a consolidated list of all auctions compiling all cars by make and there is no sign of it.
     
  10. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    No Sale 6.9 high bid.
     
  11. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
    8,827
    as expected. The estimate was much too high...
    But I am pretty sure the car will be sold post-auction...
     
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  12. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    It would be sad if such an icon did not find a good home.
     
  13. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 13, 2005
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    I haven't seen this car for quite some time and we no longer have a local event where you might see it ... still sad to see it leave the area.
    I guess it will end up in a museum and not operational in vintage events. :(
     
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  14. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    I was contacted by 5 people about this car. 2 of these Gentlemen would race it should they buy it post auction.
    But the car is in need of a resto due to mistakes in former US-restorations...
     
  15. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    Car listed as sold Post Sale.
     
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  16. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Oh do tell.
     
  17. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    I have some photos somewhere of the body shortly after it arrived in Boves. It was little more than a shell with a tech sticker along with some random scrap parts.
     
  18. emsiegel13

    emsiegel13 Formula Junior
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    Oct 9, 2007
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    Walter, you got correctly predicted this auction perfectly. Congratulations!
     
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  19. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    ‘apparently it surfaced at Concorso, looking worse than when I had it.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  20. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Looking worse on purpose like fake patina, seen it on furniture and cars...

    It would be nice to see it run as long as no one pretends it is real.
     
  21. Dai Baracca

    Dai Baracca Formula Junior

    Mar 4, 2007
    572
    NY
    Full Name:
    SB
    how did I miss this??!!
    great wealth of knowledge here and some pretty amazing fotos. My son gave me a book on the 450S that recaps the racing history from 56 to 62.
    not only beautiful design, but the cars were dominate in their time frame with an impressive list of drivers. amazing history behind these cars and a fair bit of drama from some of the colorful owners;)
     
  22. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    the patina is real as last raced at Brands Hatch in 63. Only the tops of the fenders were reworked. Look at photos of the body on the famous Maserati scrape heap.
     
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  23. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Yes, it was bought by a dealer, who contacted me on Saturday.
    But the car needs a new restoration as many details are not correctly restored many years ago. The car did not run for years so it could be possible that it needs an engine resto also to get it back to former glory and not as a Concourse queen as in the last 2 decades...
     
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  24. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,339
    Hershey, PA
    the car does Not need a new restoration. It is the only 450S in the world that had real time access to 3 other 450S’ for detail comparison. (4503, 4508, 4510). The restoration was done by https://classiccoachrepair.com/ during Ferrari’s ownership of Maserati. Classic Coach’s connections with Ferrari SpA run deep, they had access to anything they needed from Modena. Oscar’s cars were maintained by http://www.leydonrestorations.com/ who’s reputation is without question. BTW Oscar owned Leydon.
     
  25. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    Dec 28, 2005
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