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456 GT Suspension Actuators

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by number46, Jul 4, 2011.

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  1. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #1 number46, Jul 4, 2011
    FYI, I thought I would share an issue I had with the suspension warning light showing on my 456 GT Manual. Perhaps the mods could add this to the actuator thread in the Tech section as well. After reading the useful notes on here I attempted to fix the issue, observations below:

    Firstly you need to check each actuator, the fronts are easy to access, however, to access the rears you will need to jack up the rear of the car enough to drop the wheels to gain access to and remove the cover plates at the top of each wheel arch, these are held on by 4 cross head screws. To test, get a helper to cycle the ignition whilst you put your hand over each actuator in turn, you should feel and hear them whizz/cycle as the system checks them.

    After I did this check I found all four working ?? but noticed that the left rear was wobbling/moveable, this happened to be on the shock that had recently been removed to have its seals replaced!! I realised that the spring clip had either come off or not been refitted correctly in the slots on the top of the shock, this caused the actuator to move and the system to think that actuator was faulty as it would just keep going round and not hit an end stop. Once I reseated the actuator correctly and re-tested, out went the light !!

    I had a few problems when trying to re-fit the rear actuator and spring because of the very small access space. The spring can easily 'ping' off into the chassis section, you may need to use a coat hanger to recover it !! One time it 'pinged' to the back of car and I could just see it with a small mirror, the next time it 'pinged' forward and fell down the vertical chassis section, but the trusty coat hanger came to the rescue and I pushed the clip out onto the floor/rear suspension !! You will need a small mirror to be able to see into the access space and check that the spring clip is fitted correctly.

    The whole process takes a long time and is very annoying, but once you find out that you do not need a new actuator at £800 you feel alot better and can award yourself a beer or two!!!!
     
  2. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,152
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    Dave
    #2 ferraridriver, Jul 4, 2011
    A hint about the spring clip. When removing an actuator instead of pulling the spring clip all the way off just open it one end at a time and push it down on the cup. It will be right there when you re-attach the actuator, just pull it back up. The spring engages at three locations, both sides and the back.
     
  3. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #3 number46, Jul 4, 2011
    Yes, that seems a good trick, although I still think it would be still be difficult on the rears as the access is so small and you can't see the top oif the shocks. Maybe you can remove the boot(trunk!!) lining to access the top of the shock mounts??
     
  4. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #4 166&456, Jul 4, 2011
    Good to hear it was only a small issue! Those are expensive indeed. Who rebuilt your rear shock, and was it expensive?
     
  5. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #5 number46, Jul 4, 2011
    SMDG here in UK, they just did one shock, as only one was leaking.
     
  6. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #6 number46, Jul 20, 2011
    The light is back !!! I found that the actuator was loose on the left rear shock, so I managed to reseat it by lowering the shock slightly by undoing the top shock mount nuts, there by gaining better access to the clip. I also swapped the actuator with the right front incase the actuator was duff. The light went out. Just took the car out for a short run and after about 10 mins the light is back on!! Starting to get very annoying as I am off up to Scotland on saturday for a short trip. Can anyone offer advice on how I can check the actuators other than the "feel it move/whirl" technique!! Also can SD1 tell which actuator is not working?
     
  7. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,152
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    Dave
    #7 ferraridriver, Jul 20, 2011
    Not that I know of
    Yes
     
  8. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,152
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    #8 ferraridriver, Jul 20, 2011
    I have seen several actuators with a cold solder failure, this can cause an intermittent light since cycling the key resets the light, in other words while the fault code stays in memory the light will go out if there are no present faults when the car is driven. If the cold solder joint is making intermittent contact it can drive you crazy trying to find the bad actuator without a SD tool.
     
  9. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,904
    Folsom, CA (formerly Sonoma)
    #9 SonomaRik, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
    ^ That is what I'm leaning towards. If intermittent or loose connection this will be the case. Could have happened during one of the in-out scenarios of the shock placement: seems highly likely.

    Also, did you test the fact they may move correctly when actuated? The gear at the top may be worn and it may in fact get the current and 'try' but not get there entirely. I'm thinking this may be a problem also, but perhaps not your case. IF only one of the actuators are incorrect, then the system goes into HARD mode on a lock down until fixed.

    I'm sure you cut off your battery to do all this, but might try resetting the ECU again.

    Turn off battery for a few min.
    turn on, wait a few min.
    put in key and turn to the electrical engagement but NOT try to start the motor: leave there for at couple-three min. IIRC -- the manual has the routine
    THEN turn on the engine and let idle for about 15min...or drive for a slow period for 15min...gives the ECUs a period to sort out the readings etc.

    Taz would know the process better
     
  10. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,181
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    Terry H Phillips
    #10 tazandjan, Jul 20, 2011
    Rik- You got it pretty much correct. Turn off radio and A/C and any other accessories. Turn off battery disconnect switch and leave car until it is completely cold, 30 minutes minimum or overnight, depending. When full cold, reconnect battery. Insert ignition key and do nothing for 30 seconds. Turn ignition key to on and leave for 30 seconds. Start car and let idle for 10 minutes with no inputs whatsoever. A/C and radio may be turned on after 10 minutes. If a Becker radio, code will need to be entered. Drive car gently for 20 minutes to let self-learning complete.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  11. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
    4,152
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    #11 ferraridriver, Jul 20, 2011
    The above procedure will have no effect on the fault codes stored in memory. The suspension light will light or not light dependent on the present state of the system, not as a result of fault codes stored in memory.

    There are causes other than the actuator that will set a suspension light, the speed sensor being one. it will also light if the key is cycled three or more times without a drive cycle.

    There are multiple failure modes of an actuator, some easily fixed, others requiring a new actuator.

    A brand new Corvette actuator from eBay and an hours work rewiring it beats an £800 actuator from Ferrari by about £550, and its the same actuator internally except for the wiring.
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    #12 tazandjan, Jul 20, 2011
    Dave- I was just telling him how to do it. Results are not guaranteed. Has cleared a bunch of faults, but most are transient and engine related.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  13. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,904
    Folsom, CA (formerly Sonoma)
    #13 SonomaRik, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
    Thanks Taz: Will keep this in quick links



    My main questions are below. The ECU reset was just a means to clear up any codes etc. 'should that be the problem'... just saying start with the cleanest slate.

    I'm thinking this is more the problem as you narrowed it down to a cause and event. FERRERIDRIVER noted such also. And lastly intermittent connections can cause a fault.

    I was wondering since you managed to take it out and test it, did you test it's full ability to that being 'did it have full travel'



    Yes, the Vet re-work is a great find.

    best rik
     
  14. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #14 ferraridriver, Jul 20, 2011
    I understand, I just wanted to save the OP from going through a long procedure that would not help in this case.

    Number46, I have also seen the pins in the connector pushed back in their housing so far as to not make contact. This is bizarre because those particular pins are designed to go in wire first in the front end of the connector, not from the back side as one would think.
     
  15. 2000 456M

    2000 456M F1 World Champ

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    Allan
    #15 2000 456M, Jul 20, 2011
    Does this apply to the M, as well?
     
  16. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #16 tazandjan, Jul 20, 2011
    Allan- Works on any of the 2.7, 5.2, 7.1.1 (although Ferrari has a much more complicated procedure), and 7.3 cars. Not sure about 2.5.



    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  17. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #17 166&456, Jul 21, 2011
    I have a 456GT with the 2.7 Motronic and I disconnect it all the time when the car sleeps. After reconnecting the battery I just stick in the key and go, no idling or whatever. Never had an issue with that.
     
  18. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,438
    #18 360modena2003, Jul 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2011
    What SD tool is recommended, any OBDII that that you can find on ebay?

    Any indicators which one I should do for? (for a 456GT '96)

    Thanks
     
  19. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    #19 ferraridriver, Jul 21, 2011
    Only the Ferrari SD tool will read proprietary codes. The actuators are not an ODBII item
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,181
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    Terry H Phillips
    #20 tazandjan, Jul 21, 2011
    OBD-II readers will only read those codes mandated by DOT and some other engine/emissions related codes. In general, that will not include suspension faults, transmission faults, and other manufacturer specific codes.

    For those you need an SD1 (2.5/2.7), an SD2 (5.2/7.1.1), or an SD3 (emulates SD1 and SD2 functions plus 7.3).

    If the suspension light is out, you are ok.

    Dave Helms is making a wiring kit and a hose kit for the 456. Not sure if it includes suspension connectors or not. Scuderia Rampante Innovations (SRI). Many problems on older Ferraris are the result of poor contacts in the electrical system.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  21. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #21 number46, Jul 21, 2011
    Hi guys, thanks for all the helpful replies.

    I am driving up to Scotland on Saturday morning! So will re-visit the whole saga when I get back and have more time!! The car should be fine to drive with the light on as in my experience there is little difference between the suspension settings, I tend to leave it in the middle as the ecu changes the settings to hard when you push on anyway! SMDG (who rebuilt the shock) have been helpful and suggest taking it back to them and they will sort the problem and can check with an SD reader which actuator may be playing up. I suspect it is either a stiff gear in the rebuilt rear shock ( I found it very difficult to check in situ as the access is so small) or an intermittent fault in one of the actuators. I just don;t have time now to take the shock off the car and check the gear or any spare actuators to swap. I will try my best to avoid a new ferrari actuator at near £850!!!! so either a used one or a corvette conversion!!

    Knowing this car as I do it's also likely the light will just go out north of Birmingham on the way up to Scotland !!!
     
  22. number46

    number46 Karting

    Jun 21, 2005
    110
    London
    #22 number46, Aug 1, 2011
    Further update !!!
    The car performed perfectly on the trip to Scotland, slight issue with grounding at the front on some of the very poor bumpy tracks/roads on Isle of Skyle and around Glenelg!! Took the car back to SMDG and the intermittent suspension fault was traced to a slightly worn cog on the top of the left rear shock which we think was not always engaging properly with the actuator. This explains the intermittent nature of the fault. So saved having to get a new actuator!! Worth checking that the cog turns and that it is also in good condition/not broken. I had the car up on axle stands tonight to check the front underside damage. Some marks on the cross member but one of the undertray bolts had been knocked out, so I had to take off the tray and straighten out the bolt pickups and run a tap through one just to clean up the tread. So it is certainly worth avoiding bumps and grounding the front of the car because there is quite alot of stuff close to the bottom of the car that could get hit.
     

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