456 valve guides

My valve guide problems are a fairly isolated case. I know of only 2 other 456s that have shown this problem.

If you're looking at a car, have a leakdown done as part of the PPI. That's your best insurance. If you wanted to be really thorough, you could also have an oil analysis done. None of this is a guarantee, of course, as in my case a tight engine (compression check only, didn't get the leakdown) gave way to valve guide problems within about 1200 miles.

Cie la vest...

 

I believe leak down test and pulling out the spark plugs and checking them for oil is the quickest way to get an idea before pulling everything out on the engine.
mine is 456GT.. looks smoky at start up (white smoke but no cats and just straight pipe with Tubi on).. but had it checked throughly. clean no problems...

 

If it has no problems is the tooth fairy causing the smoke?

 

Rifledriver
Please tell me what else I can get checked.. leak down is fine.. no oil on spark plugs.. not even a sign. it smokes for 10 min at startup.. than gone..
I have seen 430, 612 at the service each and everyone smokes a little during startup . .may be its our climate.. but it is fairly common.. what do you suggest?

 

If those were the conclusions of the people that you have quoted here before I have no confidence in their ability to find the floor they are standing on, much less the reason for the smoking. Just don't do others the disservice of saying it is no problem.
Oil smoke on start up is not normal on a 612, a 430, or a 456 no matter which hemisphere it is operated in.

 

This was the behavior of my 456 prior to the increasingly-strong smoke, which eventually reached dense, white smoke on startup. Mine started as a wisp of white smoke on startup, becoming progressively worse over about 300 miles of driving.

Oil smoke is not normal on a modern Ferrari engine. It has to come from somewhere. What's happening to your oil level? I noticed a half-quart loss (during my gasoline fillup) when my smoking problems began.

 

Boy you are mean!
A.

 

Is oilfree white smoke at statup something to worry about when it is cold and wet?
Has this possibly to do with the airpump injecting fresh air into the exhaust system as long as the watertemp is still below a certain value ?
My 456 is smoking a lot after starting the cold engine when the weather is cold and wet.
But as soon as you start driving, or after the engine has reached its normal working conditions, all the smoke is gone.

 

exactly my condition.. as well as brand new 430s 612s

 

I thought white "smoke" was a possible indication of steam and that oil burning resulted in a blue colored smoke.

Is there anything else that might cause white smoke?

 

You are evidently unaware of the complete conversation. His service manager made some really uninformed statements and cannot be trusted.

 

Yes, my smoke was *white*. In fact, I was in denial for several hundred miles, and did things like hold a mirror to the exhaust to look for oil condensation, etc. I, too, thought it was anything but oil for a while. I kept clinging to the hope that the cooling weather (fall), etc. was just normal, moisture condesation. Unfortunately, it did turn out to be oil. I really should have taken a picture of the car idling and smoking to show what this precisely looked like. It was not obvioius at first, and looked very-much like normal, cold-car moisture with the subtle clue that it didn't readily dissipate.

Another clue was more smoke was coming from the left exhaust than the right. It was hard to attribute that to moisture (though I tried, figuring different thermal envirnoments, etc. gave a differing level of temp to each exhaust - yeah, right...)

When it's your car and your valves failing, and you know just enough to realize that a 5-figure repair bill lies ahead, you really try to justify what you're seeing as anything *but* leaky valves. I know, I went through this denial process for 2 tanks of gas before it became so bad (and after I had torn off every inlet-attachement on the manifold to rule out an oil/vapor separator problem...) before I finally called Denver and had them pickup the car.

It's been in the shop for almost 10 weeks now; maybe another 2 before it's done. Actually, being the optimist that I am, I did figure it could have been worse. I was slightly relieved to find it *was* oil and not coolant. Leaky valves are replaceable at $10-12k. A cracked head/block (coolant) could easily double or triple that cost. Ditto for finding no problems with the rings (using Brian's suggested leakdown method on the bare block). So, all-in-all, I get a fresh top end, new belts and a 30k service, and a tight engine for $12k. Could be worse, and now I don't have to sweat the valve-guide issue in my 456 ever again...

Oil smoke is not always blue.

 

Check my old posts for many details.

Here's a start:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131243

 

Diablo,
What exactly do you mean with " it didn´t readily dissipate".

Hans

 

I reccomend having your engine oil analyzed. Pay particular attention to the copper and bronze content in the report. You may elect to tell the lab performing the service that you suspect valve guide wear.
I also believe that the number of cold starts ar a factor, more so than mileage. 1995 seems to be the year for soft valve guides.
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