456 window mechanism remake | FerrariChat

456 window mechanism remake

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by franschman, Dec 28, 2020.

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  1. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    #1 franschman, Dec 28, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    Now that my 456GT is repainted I am taking great care to install the door/window seals and door windows as good as possible to prevent as much wind noise as possible. However, I found it impossible as the windows just didn't seem to fit. The window had to rotate and move aft, more than it could.
    I fiddled for hours and finally concluded that the cause of my trouble was the scissor mechanism that lift the window. This scissor consists of two arms, one of which running the full length and which carries the weight of the window; the second arm is split and runs either side of the first arm. the two halves of this second arm are connected by a large aluminium pin which also is the hinge pin. As has been documented before, this pin it the cause of the trouble, but it took some time for me to understand how exactly as it all looked pretty good. The split arm, however, was not straight but 'bent'. Bending this straight solved the problem of window fitment! But now the arms were more or less loose. The aluminium pin is simply not strong enough.

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    Having come so far, I decided to copy the mechanism in 3mm stainless steel and add an extra degree of freedom by having the split arm adjustable over a few degrees. A bronze bearing and thin brass washers will reduce friction and hopefully last forever.

    Very pleased with the result; it is much stiffer than the original mechanism, the window doesn't rotate any more when opening or closing, and the window now fits perfectly!

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    brogenville, Salami and F456M like this.
  2. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,696
    Oslo
    Full Name:
    Erik
    Fantastic. Send. Picture to Maranello and a quote of a few thousands each! Lots of cars that this is a real pain to try to fix. Many never understand what is the real reason for the gap. I had a 456 myself and made some attempts to fix the problem. Some frustration comes as a bonus. Along with some really inappropriate words...
     
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,259
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    A gentlemen on the forum was selling beautifully crafted steel, star-shaped bosses a few months ago. Did your window mechanism require more drastic repairs?
     
  4. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Basically all hinge points had too much play. It's all nice and tight now. And having the possibility to adjust the angle between the two halves of the second arm makes all the difference as by that you can rotate the window to the correct angle.
    I still need to finish the arms by etching them, just for the looks of it.

    Window operation is still not perfect as the forward sliders have too much friction in the upper part. I need to take the mirror off to investigate.
     
    Salami and Qavion like this.
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,156
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    #5 tazandjan, Dec 28, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    Beats sending it off to F1 Imports in Florida. New ones look very stout.
     
  6. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    Nice work. I guess I’ll be the first to ask, are you offering a kit or a cut file on these?
     
  7. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Actually you were not the first one asking for a set. I’ve been thinking on how best to do this, as the mechanism contains quite a few CNC-machined components that need to be made and welded together. Not everyone has the tools required if I just supply the components. Also, since left and right are mirror image (so not identical), should I be offering a set only or left/right individually?

    Regarding the costs, I don’t need to get rich on these things. I design boats for a living. I would happily give all drawings in exchange for a set of 456 front bumper lamps (153107&153108); I really wouldn’t mind if a hundred or more sets are produced and sold at a good profid. Failing this option, I think I can offer the mechanisms for about €250,- each, so €500,- per set, plus shipping, assuming a series of 10 sets. Obviously a larger series would reduce the price.
    Would there be interest?

    Any profits on this will go directly into the hunt for said lamps, which will finish off the restoration of my 456gt.
     
    Il Tifoso likes this.
  8. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    I sent a PM about this, but the short story is I’m one of the few people capable of doing all this stuff. I have a full fab shop and I’ve been welding stainless for 30 years so I’m uniquely qualified in this arena. I don’t have any extra lamps but if there is interest in sets of these I’d be willing to have a conversation about taking over this design, and possibly paying you a legacy fee on each set for example. Or I could just copy what you’ve done, but I wouldn’t do that because I’m a metal worker of integrity, even more rare!
     
    Il Tifoso likes this.
  9. Salami

    Salami Karting

    Oct 31, 2020
    219
    Oregon
    #9 Salami, Dec 30, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
    I have a cnc mill, a big old manual lathe, and a host of other tools in my home shop, including the V12 of tig welders, a Miller synchrowave 250, circa about 1995 vintage, same as my Ferrari! Things were just made better back then lol. I work with laser cutting outfits weekly for various other jobs so we could make these in batches.
    I’m curious though, I was under the impression that all this window stuff had been sorted out by the custom shops that repair them. Are they not really sorted in fact? My windows work okay but not perfect I’d say. But I’ve never been inside them an I don’t know what has been done to them in the past.
     
    Il Tifoso likes this.
  10. adrian456gta

    adrian456gta Karting

    Mar 23, 2017
    62
    Kalgoorle Wa
    Full Name:
    Adrian Harper
    I think you would have a market for them for sure. I would be looking at selling the finished units, that's what I and most people would be interested in.
     
  11. sully456

    sully456 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2011
    40
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Steve O'Sullivan
    Nice work, I had my Aluminum Star Press Fitted connector machined out and replaced with a Stainless Steel part, which made the window operation consistent, but not perfect. But you have highlighted some thing I had not considered, bending the actual moving arm angle. Thanks for your post.
     
  12. Davidspop

    Davidspop Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2019
    401
    Full Name:
    Lance Malcolm
  13. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2012
    2,261
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Looks great; why not see if ricambi would stick them for you?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    Davidspop likes this.
  14. mominayal

    mominayal Karting

    Feb 2, 2017
    119
    Indiana
    Did u guys ever decide to make some mechanisms for sale?
     

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