456M rad changed only oil fan working | FerrariChat

456M rad changed only oil fan working

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Rburkina, Apr 3, 2024.

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  1. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    New custom rad installed because of cracked lower elbow on previous rad. Fans worked before the change over with no overheating issues. The oil fan starts with the car but not the larger rad fan. Fuses and relays in the car are all ok but one of the two 30A fan fuses in the engine compartment blows when the car overheats. The large fan is free wheeling. Cannot get under the car to check the fan connectors or thermoswitch connector and the mech who did the install can’t work on it for a few weeks.

    Trying to solve this one myself but out of ideas until I can get a look from below. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    #2 scowman, Apr 3, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2024
    Check the 456 forum.

    Many take the fan circuit off the relay board as it does not like that much constant current.

    I think Ricambi sells a custom harness for this. I made my own by pulling a fat wire off the alternator then used stock supply wire to signal two relays at the radiator. I have a 10 second delay relay for the oil fan so it goes on just after the main fan is triggered.

    Your fans may need replacing too.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/456-small-fan-switch.599436/page-2
     
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    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
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  4. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    Thank you for the quick reply and I should have mentioned everything was working fine before the install, just a leaky rad. Can’t see it being a fan issue (since it’s not seized) or the fuse control board since it shows no sign of heat damage. Will add the direct-wire harness in due course once I get the large fan sorted. Thought someone may have had this issue previously with an incorrect electrical l hook up (or short causing issue) after reinstalling the new rad.
     
  5. JoeCab

    JoeCab Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2014
    439
    Colorado
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    Joe C
    The first thing I would do is check the fan operation by testing it with an external 12V battery and some test leads. If the fan runs with external power, then start looking at wiring and relays.
     
  6. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Nov 21, 2020
    1,887
    Indianapolis
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    Nick
    I’m the one making the Fan harness Ricambi sells. What do you have installed right now? Stock, there are no fuses in the engine bay for the fans. My kit uses 40amp fuses. Others who have tried with 30a fuses have had the same results as you are experienceing. Do you already have some other version of it installed? The Oil radiator fan shouldn’t start ‘with the car’. It should come on at a much warmer temp, if the sensors are working properly. Feel free to reach out to me directly and I can help you identify what’s there or what you need. All else being equal, the link above is what you need assuming the rest of your cooling system has been sorted.
     
    Mirek likes this.
  7. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    Good call. As soon as I can get under the car. Thank you.
     
  8. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    As far as I know the harness is all stock and there are two 30A fuses near the rad reservoir (see photo). The uncovered fuse is the one that blows when the car overheats (Not at the start). My first thought there was a short in the wiring but if there is, it’s not shorting until a sensor kicks in. Will look up your number and reach out as suggested thanks.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    Stu Boogie
    Interesting. I do not have an M. Is that stock? If not that is a big red flag.
     
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  10. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,550
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    Stu Boogie
    You can probably get a lot more help if you ask this question in the 456/550/575 forum.
     
  11. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    I have never seen that either, but looking at diagram 130 of then456M catalog it looks like it may be factory, look at part number 59. Seems like those fuses mount up on the inner wheel well. What year and assembly # is your car? What market was it originally sold to?

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  12. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    2,133
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    Jaime
    I believe it could be perceived as a "stupid" question, but what is a RAD? Is it short for radiator? If so, why not take an extra two seconds to write the complete word?
     
  13. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    Thanks Nick. You are correct, those are the two 30A fuses shown in the diagram you attached. Can I assume those would both be bypassed upon the installation of the Ricambi direct to power harness? So far I have not been able to figure out how to reach you directly for greater detail.
     
  14. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    Sent you a message
     
  15. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
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    Assuming the fuse holders are stock, then I also assume they are post relay board. If the fuses are the correct size and they keep blowing post relay board then likely the fans are in need of replacement or you have some other parasitic draw.
     
  16. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    860
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Antibes France
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    Portofino
    Radiator.Yep .
    After a while talking to like minded there does develop a set of commonly use abbreviations .RAD is one of them .
    Then you have spell check and other “ auto correct “ thingys …..so it’s not laziness , just happens.
     
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  17. Mirek

    Mirek Formula 3
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    Oct 20, 2019
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    I have one of the last 3 or so 2003 M’s built and I did not have any fuses like this from the factory under the hood. I had an Aerosurfer harness before there was an Aerosurfer harness. Best money spent after I sorted my cooling issues, replaced the fans, etc….
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Aerosurfer

    Aerosurfer Formula 3
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    According to the diagram, and Based on Assembly numbers this was on some 98-99 456m Cars. Sleuthing past BaT auctions I found it on other 456M cars of the same period, so it was definitely a regular production part at the time. I don't recall anyone else on the 456/550/575 forums ever talking about it. Certainly not on any of the Cooling thread we have over there.

    I have been in contact with the OP and hopefully we can get more info on where its wired to/from and if my harness kit is still appropriate or fits as it does the rest of the models. Gotta love no wiring diagrams from Ferrari. @Qavion do you have any info or reference point about this?

    @Rburkina Im going to link this in the 456/550 forum, you may get better answers there.

    Ill reach out to you some time this weekend, got your email.
     
    Mirek likes this.
  19. Mirek

    Mirek Formula 3
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    Curiouser and Curiouser.
     
  20. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
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    Robert Batt
    Does it overheat then blow the fuse? Or the other way round?

    Before I fitted Aerosurfer’s kit I used to use a 40 amp fuse for the fans or they’d blow.
     
  21. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    Belfry, The fuse is fine until the car heats up and I am guessing the thermo switch tries to turns on the fan. There is power to that fuse, so there must be a short in the wire between the rad thermo switch and the fan. The fan and thermo were working fine before the rad replacement so it’s hard to see a problem with them now as a result of the install. I have done all I can do from above. I need to get under the car to check the fan and thermo wiring.
     
  22. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
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    I have a early 1998 production 99 MY 456M and I dont have those fuses in my car. My assembly number is way earlier then 32xxx though
     
  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Assuming the fuses are stock, do you still have the 2 fuses for the fans on your passenger footwell relay panel? (F6 & F8)
     
  24. Rburkina

    Rburkina Rookie

    May 29, 2023
    9
    Canada
    Problem solved. Turns out the thermo switch connector and the rad fan connector are the same size and design. The wire length is even the same. The mechanic put the thermo switch connector into the rad fan and the reason why the 30A fuse blew when the rad reached 90C and the thermo switch closed. On obvious mistake if you’re in hurray to put things back together I guess but the gauge of the wire is certainly heavier for the fan as well as having color codes. Was an easy find and fix once I was under the car. Many thanks for all the input and suggestions.
     
    Aerosurfer, f355spider, Mirek and 2 others like this.

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