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458/488 Brake Recall

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Hopeful, Oct 30, 2021.

  1. Bad Boys 1

    Bad Boys 1 Karting

    Mar 22, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Michael M
    I talked to a few of my friends and they all said ....yea the brakes are not that good on a 458.

    WTF... I own dump trucks , so what do I do install a Jake brake?
    My friend says he just always downshifts to slow down.

    I can stick your eyeballs to the windshield in my other cars. Others have said here..just put it in race mode and it won't happen...lol

    I purchased from Newport Beach Ferrari with 540 miles.
    drove it 3 times
     
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  3. Bad Boys 1

    Bad Boys 1 Karting

    Mar 22, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Michael M
    Never knew about crappy brakes or I would not have purchased. After purchase I had car completely wrapped with Expel,
    then ceramic coated . also had wheels and calipers coated.

    I think it's probably the nicest looking car I own ...but dont trust it
     
  4. todd cloud

    todd cloud Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 21, 2019
    200
    Full Name:
    Todd Anthony Cloud
    If fluid leaks into the booster, coats the diaphragm, and breaks the vacuum you will have a dead pedal
    Is this not a one and done failure?
    How can this be intermittent?
     
  5. Borrow’d Mine

    Borrow’d Mine Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 28, 2019
    458
    Florida
    Very confusing. I tracked mine this week at Sebring with hard breaking in turns 3, hairpin, & 10. Plenty of stopping power (and it's needed) in approach to those 3 turns. I checked the reservoir after each session but never a need to top off. Nervously watched for dash messages on all straights. Really hard to know what to do at this point. Ferrari needs to quickly get some more communication to their owners so we know what the heck to do next.
     
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  6. Bad Boys 1

    Bad Boys 1 Karting

    Mar 22, 2020
    72
    Full Name:
    Michael M
    When you get the message ....it may be too late

    Good luck
     
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  8. Mrpseudonym

    Mrpseudonym Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 7, 2020
    67
    Sydney, Australia
    Really odd.. the 458 was released in .. what.. 2009?… so only after 12 years is there this much chatter. As @Borrow’d Mine says, not to minimise gravity etc but I wonder why now..
     
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  9. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,328
    Silicon Valley
    Agreed. I think there is more than one failure mode. One is the fluid causing a diaphragm leak. I don’t see how that comes back, unless in some situations the leak is small, so if the car is driven enough to allow the vacuum to accumulate fast enough to fill the booster, you have brakes again.
    The other could be a check valve that fails to close. That could be intermittent if it sometimes closes and sometimes doesn’t.
    I’ve never had a problem but this does concern me a bit.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
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  10. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,328
    Silicon Valley
    Could be this is cropping up now because of age. A seal that should have stood up better to time, perhaps? I’m sure Ferrari wouldn’t have issued the warning unless there were enough cases to be concerning. It tarnishes the brand and has had a chilling effect on people driving their cars. So they wouldn’t have done this unless the risk of inaction was worse.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  11. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2014
    382
    TX
    There were a handful of threads on here 3-4 years ago on accidents/near accidents, not sure if they are still on here, but it had my attention. All were the same brake story.
     
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  13. rockminster

    rockminster Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2003
    832
    Lake Tahoe
    I have a 2014 Speciale. At last year’s annual service I asked them to check the brakes because the pedal had what felt like reduced modulation and the stopping power just didn’t feel right. They claim they checked the brakes, including driving the car, and reported that everything was “normal”. Now, this was before the recent brake failure warning from FNA but I’ve got to assume this was a known issue in the Ferrari tech community last year, no?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  14. Tony91505

    Tony91505 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2005
    351
    So cal
    Full Name:
    Tony
    I can assure you it has been posted many times in the past. I just figured no one likes to advertise it in an attempt to preserve value for the model they own. This “recall” surely has to put a damper on the price. Either that or pressure from Ferrari apologists saying it’s user error or lack of burnishing etc. Many prefer illusion to despair!
     
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  15. Giallo27

    Giallo27 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
    59
    Full Name:
    JB
    Súper concerning though.

    My Speciale will sit in garage so far, hopefully Ferrari will release a solution soon, they must be now doing numbers on a table alongside the Bosch guys blaming each other.

    Cars cannot be pulled out endlessly, and this is not only USA, it’s worldwide issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  16. Borrow’d Mine

    Borrow’d Mine Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 28, 2019
    458
    Florida
    Despair? Not me. There will be a recall, a better unit will be developed, cars will get them. Ferrari stock will take a hit and ultimately it is behind us. Inconvenient, yes. Cause for despair, questionable.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
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  17. nmcclure

    nmcclure Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 13, 2014
    382
    TX
    I don't think the stock will take a hit, there is a line item on the balance sheet for these types of things. I'll pull the recent filings and see the amount, but corporately, it's already figured in.
     
  18. SD455TA

    SD455TA Rookie

    It won't have any impact on it other than emotional seller losers and we always need some of those go to higher anyway
     
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  19. Tony91505

    Tony91505 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2005
    351
    So cal
    Full Name:
    Tony
     
  20. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    1,305
    Tampa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I was there too. I checked reservoir all the time. I never felt comfortable to do my usual driving and only did 3 laps on 2nd day and stopped.
     
  21. Giallo27

    Giallo27 Karting

    Sep 21, 2020
    59
    Full Name:
    JB
    No one can rest assured on the brakes now


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  22. ilko

    ilko Karting

    Aug 20, 2008
    106
    Tell that to the guy in Singapore, or was it Hong Kong, who killed a pedestrian a few years ago...

    It is very much an intermittent failure. Most of the time the diaphragm seals, but on a rare occasion it doesn't.

    The repair is cheap and straight-forward. My cost was under $500 for the parts, if you add labor it should still be under a grand.

    The check valve was not the issue in my case. I changed all the vacuum hoses first, hoping that would cure the intermittent braking failure. It didn't.

    I bought a one-owner car a year ago and it had that intermittent brake failure issue since Day 1 of my ownership. When I called the selling dealer (Ferrari of Washington) who had just serviced the car prior to sale, they said that there were no problems. I called my local dealer describing the issue, they told me they'd never heard of it. I fixed it myself, and when the recall was announced I called them again and they said they'd never heard of the issue. Interesting, since I described it to them a few months prior.

    Get it fixed, enjoy the car. It's not an expensive repair.

    My original intermittent failure thread for reference: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/intermittent-brake-failure-fixed.639751/
     
  23. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,328
    Silicon Valley
    So the big question then is whether this will eventually plague all 458s, or is this limited to a batch?
    And will it show symptoms like an intermittent lack of boost first, or just one day fail entirely without warning?
    Hopefully we’ll know before next spring.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  24. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 19, 2006
    12,110
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    Took my Speciale out for a beautiful late afternoon autumn drive in the mountains today.
    What a car.
    Still here to tell the tale. :)
     
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  25. rw99

    rw99 Karting

    Jan 1, 2019
    62
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Rich
    I’m uncertain how to place this information from Ferrari in reasonable context regarding risk.

    Is there any correlation with track use of the affected cars?

    Surely, the aggregate number of miles and years post-production means that the likelihood of this failure is incredibly small? I don’t discount the impact on those who’ve lost the brakes on their car, that’s gotta be really frightening. But still, very rare… or is there also a silent group of owners who have not disclosed brake failures of their 458/488?

    Recognition by Ferrari points to tacit acceptance of responsibility. So, legally, why wouldn’t they tell owners to keep their cars parked until a solution can be provided? Advising drivers to merely heed a brake error message seems inadequate, while acknowledging fault. I don’t get it. Is this a serious issue, or not???

    Their current stance makes me feel like the problem is quite rare. But, even if the risk is small, the impact is potentially devastating. I’m in a quandary.


    Rich
     
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  26. elt360

    elt360 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 27, 2013
    108
    uk
    Full Name:
    paul elton
    Hi Rich,
    I think your post echoes the feelings of every concerned 458 owner.
    It reminds me of the saying "its a one in a million chance of it happening" until you are the one.
    Hopefully a solution will be found soon.
    Paul.
     
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  27. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2015
    1,818
    FL and BlueRidge Mtns.
    Full Name:
    William
    Not sure that simply replacing defective part or parts is a cure for a possible design flaw. You may have kicked the can down the road with no assurance it won’t happen again.

    Years ago a US Air flight suffered ‘reverse ruddering’ and crashed coming into Pittsburg. It was a very expensive occurrence in terms of human life.

    The NTSB eventually discovered the cause and it led to a redesign of a power control valve. It was a 1 in 10 million failure.

    Simply replacing o-rings or a diaphragm would not have addressed the root cause, which is what is being suggested here.

    I think we have to be patient and wait for Ferrari to properly address the issue with a permanent fix.
     
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  28. Sargepug

    Sargepug Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 23, 2020
    478
    NYC
    Any update?? I haven't received any from Ferrari NA, since the initial warning. I'm glad it's now basically winter, when my 458 is all but put away till April. I'm hoping this is resolved by then....
     
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