458/488 Brake Recall

This seems like a super sensible approach and is the same one I’m taking. If you don’t mind sharing, are you still driving the affected 458/488?

Ruben

 

I’m with the non legal action people. It’s a third party part fitted in good faith that Ferrari are trying to figure out. Give them a chance and don’t tie them up in legal cases which will be a distraction and even could make them pause rectification as the lawyers shut things down.

Perhaps it’s me but reaching for the lawyers against a firm I buy into and love just doesn’t fit in with me.


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I’m not driving the car. I live in an area where I wouldn’t drive it through the winter months so the real usage loss for me has been from when the recall was noted until the snow falls. Gives a nice runway for Ferrari to get the issue resolved before spring of ‘22.


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It seems there is no equipment difference between the cars showing the failure (which are statistically in low numbers, something that is outweighted by the potential gravity of the failure) and those not presenting it (so far?)
It would be interesting to know whether there are specific conditions favouring the failure, and / or if it's due to some part presenting a manufacturing defect (in which case it would be worth knowing whether it's possible to detect the defect before failure, otherwise replacing the part by a new one is not a guarantee).
In the case of the infamous Takata airbags there were specific conditions (e.g. humidity exposure IIRC) that contributed to the failure.
Another thing that's worth remembering is that the defect has not been discovered with the recall, it's been known for years (its explanation is not much clearer now, booster failure has been suspected for a long time) - so the recall objectively does not change its gravity (and whether one should still take the chance of driving 458s and 488s).
I also wonder how much of the failure can be actually compensated by the driver after the initial surprise (which could certainly be fatal in case of an emergency braking, where there is no left time for adjustment) - without booster, brake assist is lost, but in theory the braking power is still there.

 

^^^
Based on reading the entire thread, the people that this has happened to report NO braking.

The sad thing to me is that Ferrari has done the typical car company (they all do it!) response... it's "user error".
And they don't communicate the possible issue to the dealers so if it happens to a dealer's customer, all the dealer can say is "I don't know anything about it", which is totally unacceptable regarding a brake issue. Had they (Ferrari) been more transparent with their dealers, this would have been handled YEARS ago.

 

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m afraid to drive mine. I did not have much faith in the brakes before the recall and the current turn of events are hardly confidence inspiring. I wonder if there is any liability with the owner for knowingly driving the car, should one get in an accident. Be safe out there.

 

^^^
In today's litigious world, you ask a pertinent question...if you drive a car that possibly has a brake issue and you injure/kill someone because of a brake failure on your car (and you knew of that possibility), were you negligent?
I would assume not since Ferrari has not said "park the car until we figure this out" but one never knows.

 

Funny, cause this is how Ferrari sent it to me and others that are subscribed to their program.

Ferrari North America <[email protected]>

Dear John,

We wanted to inform you that Ferrari is investigating whether a problem exists in certain Model Year 2010-2015 458 vehicles. The vehicles involved are equipped with a braking system that could potentially leak brake fluid, which may lead to a total loss of braking capability, and result in an accident. We want to assure you that your safety is our priority, and we are committed to correcting this condition in your vehicle if it exists.

Our records show that you are the owner of this vehicle. Ferrari is conducting further research to determine the root cause and possible scope of this problem. We will contact you as soon as we have further instructions for you. In the meantime, if a message appears on your dashboard, “Brake fluid level low, Go to dealer slowly”, please pull off the road as soon as it is safe to do so. Then contact Ferrari Roadside Assistance at 1.866.788.6760. Your car will be taken to the nearest authorized Ferrari dealer and inspected free of charge. If necessary, Ferrari will perform any necessary repairs to your vehicle for free.

Note: The vehicle’s electric parking brake can be used as an emergency brake when the vehicle is in motion. See your Owner’s Manual for further information.

If you have any questions, please contact your local authorized Ferrari dealer. You can find a listing of them at https://www.ferrari.com/en-US/auto/dealers

Sincerely,

Ferrari North America, Inc.

Aftersales Department

 

Fine. You win. Semantics until the notice to “schedule your recall service appt” comes in.


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My electronic parking brake stopped working and I have an “EPB MALFUNCTION” error. So now per the letter, I can’t do what Ferrari recommends in the event of a failure. I fully expect Ferrari to fix my EPB under my power warranty, or find another way to cover the expense of the repair in light of its absolute necessity and recommended safety measure with the brake recall issue.


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The language in the email and the subsequent letter I got in the mail was most certainly crafted by lawyers and I would surmise they were forced to do it by the US government. What exactly is being recalled is not clear, at least to me. When this supposed recall is going to take place is also not clear. Ferrari is a corporation and chasing max profit for their shareholders, as they should. I’m not sure what kind of relationship people here think they have with this public company, whether perceived or real. i love Ferrari as much as the next guy, but find the brakes in their present state to be outright dangerous, regardless of what any apologist would state. anyone want to buy a 200k used sports car which may or may not stop as designed?

 

Not trying to win anything...

The first post with the PDF from the NHTSA states that it is a "RECALL" (there are 2 choices at the top right hand side of the NHTSA document... "Recall" and "Investigation"). Recall is checked.

 

Of course we checked the brake booster. I am sure that we changed the brake booster in that car as well trying to fix the problem. I do not know where the foreign piece came from. I assumed it was from something in the ABS unit but I don't really know. All I know is that it fixed the issue on the 488 that we had.

I have never seen something like that but I did on this car. We had bled the system many times before as well. I don't remember the exact circumstances that day but I remembering being shocked when it came out. As soon as it came out the brakes worked as they were expected to.

I hope Ferrari finds a solution to this problem for all of you that are having it.

 

I’m pretty sure if there was the immediate danger many are suggesting, the cars would be “grounded”. I’m not omnipotent, but I have yet to hear of numbers of fatal or tragic accidents, instead warning lights going off. Liability is way too high for F or the governments to just sit on this. Be prudent and wait on a fix. Until then, continue to enjoy these incredible cars.

 

^^^
With all respect, this is not a new thing, it goes back to 2010...someone HAS been sitting on this...for years. You're naive if you think Ferrari is going to come out and say to nearly 10,000 owners: "Park your car till we figure out what's going on".
Luckily, the vast majority of Ferraris are not driven very much, so I think Ferrari is rolling the dice on the danger verses the bad publicity from dry docking 10,000 VERY expensive cars.

 

There was a death in Hong Kong. 458 driver had the firm pedal, couldn’t stop, and ultimately hit and killed a pedestrian. The 458 driver was charged last year with wreckless manslaughter and convicted. His defense argued that the brakes became hard and the car would not stop no matter how hard he tried to push the brake pedal, however the defense’s argument was invalidated when Ferrari testified that there “was nothing wrong with the braking system” in his car or any other 458. The 458 owner was convicted and is now in prison. This driver experienced the failure exactly as described, and Ferrari themselves went to court, acknowledged zero culpability, all but guaranteeing one of their owners would be locked up. Awful in every possible way.

My hope is that his attorneys in Hong Kong are aware of this US-based recall and are now actively working to exonerate and free him in light of this new evidence to validate the defense’s original argument.


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he was sentenced to 21 months back in 2016

he was driving 3 times the speed limit in a tunnel in race mode, no doubt listening to the exhaust

Claimed his brakes failed

I am skeptical

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-banker-prison/ex-deutsche-banker-jailed-for-killing-security-guard-in-ferrari-crash-idUSKCN12P0AH

 

They said “certain cars“ and owners will receive notification 12/21/21.

 

Could you share who “they” are? Thanks!


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I was responding to a comment about the pdf in post #1 of this thread, which can be read in post #5.

 

Ok


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Only problem he was traveling at 3 times the speed limit.

 

precisely. he was acting like an ass and killed a man.
he is lucky to have only gotten 21 months in prison.
there was nothing wrong with his brakes.

 

I can’t comment on their legal system, but that is one incident out of how many thousand cars? It’s not an issue to be ignored; it’s just also one to be careful but not crazed. 458s aren’t just all of the sudden flying into walls. And to suggest F and NHTSA are just sitting there doing nothing isn’t fair either. Be smart and don’t kill the values too.