458...any info on actual $$

Keep one thing in mind. Ferrari doesn't care what we think or the dealer thinks the price should be. Ferrari thinks they are an elitist company and will price the 458 accordingly. More than once the head of Ferrari has said its customers are some of the wealthiest people in the world. Bad economy, falling real estate values, etc all fall on deaf ears at Ferrari.

edit: the head of Ferrari said if you want an entry level Ferrari ... buy a used one.

 

I think you are close but ill bet this car will have a wait list a mile long, its the hottest Ferrari in decades ill bet the long time customers that have passed on some of the newer models will grab this one up along with F offering it to celebs and such for publicity that somehow manage to get one even though they are not long time customers.

Ill bet this car pushes $400k for awhile, there's gonna be a lot of angry long time customers wanting probably deserving but not getting 458s as well.

 

I think the dealers should be worried. The 458 has long been said to slot above the California, which is in the 240 range, is it not? I don't think you will have any hope of walking out the door under 300k. In theory.

Problem is, no matter how great the 458 is (and I think it is really, really great) it is a very high priced and now depreciating luxury. If you are a dealer with a scud on the lot, you can be sure you are going to lose your shirt and pants unloading it if the 458 is available. Lambo's 560 is a helluva car. How many are selling at sticker? Many dealers have been lucky to keep their doors open. Yes Ferrari has a more robust client pool from which to pull, but this is not going to be the first time in history when dealers had a really tough time. Except now they are expected to sell more cars, against a market that has more and more competition.

Scuds are already discounted, and used are well below original sale price. How long did it take for the Stradale to come back to MSRP? It's a different world now.

But it's going to be a better one with that *****in' 458 in it!

 

The value of a used Ferrari is directly related to the general economy. It has nothing to do with how good the F430 or the 360 or the 355 or even classics.

Ferrari's are a luxury. When the economy improves, more people can afford to buy them. Right now, you're seeing them dumped because people need or want cash. When the economy improves, you'll see the opposite.

The same goes for Real Estate. People still retire, they still get married and have children, they find new jobs, their children move out, they want to live in a better neighborhood, etc. That hasn't changed just like people wish they could own a Ferrari. Once the means becomes available, more people will move into the market causing prices to rise.

The only thing that's going to be a dead dog is speculation -- and that's a good thing. Speculation is disease that infects the true value of anything that is traded.

What we are seeing is temporary situation. Certainly a terrible temporary situation but to some degree temporary. I'm not saying that Real Estate or cars will suddenly whoosh up again. What I am saying is that the current downward movement is not permanent.

I've been saying this for some time... the new 458 will actually INCREASE prices of used cars, particularly spiders. Why? Because the waiting lists for it will be long, the prices and demand for the new cars high, and there will be no new spiders available for over a year. People will be looking at buying used cars as a way to get on the waiting list or see them as bargains and a way to fill their need for the 2 or 3 year wait.

That's not why I bought mine. I bought it because I can afford it and I enjoy it. But it's also why I'm not worried. If the economy improves (and there is no reason to believe it never will), then values will once again stabilize or even grow again, albiet slowly.

 

Ferrari gave a hint on their new pricing strategy by pricing the 16M only modestly above the price of a regular Scud, despite it being limited production AND the fact that it is a spider. The 16M pricing was set after the economy started nose diving. I expect that the 458 Italia pricing will follow suit, with a fairly consevative base price of about $230K to $240K, with the potential of many expensive options that one can add as desired. Of course much depends on what the economy does over the next 12 mos. First deliveries are a long way off here in the U.S. Best.

 

X2. Get in line now.

 

Already have!

 

Used Ferrari prices are not going to continue downward? Global economic implosion will sharply reverse by the time the 458 is launched?

This has never happened, that a more expensive Ferrari replacement forced up previous model car prices. And, there is a particular over abundance of spiders. Dream on though.

This is relevant to 458 pricing strategies by Ferrari or production targets how?

 

one factor that i havent heard people mention in this discussion is exchange rates today (and the outlook) and what the case was when the 430 was priced comparative to the CS. I havent done the math but have to believe that would preclude the car from being < 220k

 

I would expect the base price on the 458 to be at or slightly higher than the Scud. What Ferrari has done with the California is to create a new entry level model that at least 50% of the F430/360 customers would be happy with. The 458 will be more hard edged and exclusive the std 430, as such they will increase the price accordingly. The base price on my 2008 Scud was $277k and I believe its increased for 2009. Thus I would expect a minimum base price of $285k, but more likely $295k-$300k, with reasonably equipped cars in the $325k range. If this is in fact the case its going to make a used 430 at half price or less look pretty good!!

 

All products and services have their prices determined (in a free market anyway) by THE MARKET.

I never said that prices would not continue to fall. What I said was that it is not necessarily true that this current trend will continue forever, as many people on this forum think. It is not inevitable, as it was in the 60's for today's classics when they reached their low point. We are in a snapshot of time. One way or the other, change will change the market.

The market will change as people acquire more wealth and disposible income. I find it hard to believe anyone would doubt that. Saying prices will never rise again is like saying prices will never fall again. It's all supply and demand. And, in today's market, there's little demand for ANYTHING, including luxury goods. That too will change over time.

As to prices rising, I'm referring particularly about spiders which will be out of production for maybe more than a year. As spiders are more than half of the market and people already pay a premimum over coupes to own them, this short term restriction in product will effect resale values of used ones. That restriction will be an artificial and an UNUSUAL situation in the market (caused by Ferrari's own marketing plans) which in turn will cause UNUSUAL market fluctuations in pricing and demand. Again, I find it hard to argue with this.

I'm not dreaming. I'm looking at supply and demand in a growing economy. If there's any dreaming going on, it's economic growth. I can't see Ferrari's becoming a product that people simply don't want no matter what the price. The question is can they afford one (sales price, insurance, and upkeep).

In case your wondering as to my claim of uniqueness, remember that the 360 spider continued to be sold and in production while the F430 coupe was in production until the F430 spider was ready. So, what Ferrari is doing in shutting off all spider production is something unique in the last 10 years or more. Spider lovers will have 2 choices-- buy a new California or a used F430 spider. Those that do not want to wait and do not want a California will buy a used F430 spider and trade or sell it in later when their new car arrives.

Now, this too is temporary. When 458 spider production begins, look for 430 spider prices to fall as owners sell them to afford the new car.

Ferrari will charge what the market will bear for the 458. No more, no less. They already know how many they can sell at any price for the next two years. If it's priced too high, people will just buy used F430's. If it's priced too low, the lack of production will still stabilize the used car market while allowing the chance for dealers to charge over MSRP until demand falls.

As disposible income increases and desire to own a Ferrari increase from the addition of this car in the market, it makes sense to assume demand will increase as well. If demand increases, then what happens to prices? You already know the answer. You could argue that demand will not increase under any reasonable circumstance but that is actually less of a possibility than the economy not ever improving.

My last comment was to show that I am not a speculator nor do I endorse anyone to buy one for that purpose. The sooner that speculators are out of the market, the better it will be for all of us who really want to own one.

 

Huge +1!
Most people here are wrong and this post hits the nail perfectly.
A lot of guys here will be surprised but the base price will be definitely less then $250k and even when loaded with options it will not go over $300k.

 

Just 2¢:

There's a difference between MSRP and dealer pricing. Many of the numbers being suggested here (related to 430's) are dealer asking prices. I think the MSRP will be around 10% above current 430 MSRP and dealers will final-price according to actual demand. Given how long the financial crisis is going to last (and how cash reserves are depleted among the high end buyers), that's anyone's guess.

 

Mark, please pass the bong when you are done.

 

Of course the 3rd option is a used 16M.

 

Being optimistic never hurts....

 

Very true. But, as there are only 499 of them in the world, it's going to be hard to get one.

 

In our dreams, absolutely zero chance.

 

I have seen 560s go for under $185k, which is well under msrp, for a brand new car!!! Of course Ferraris have much more demand and hold there values much better than the modern lambos....

 

+100

And that car will be 25% off sticker at least when the 458 comes out next year, which put the garden variety F430 spiders in the mid 150's at that time. Lot's of choices, options and motivated sellers! The 458 has made the F430 design just so passe.

 

LP560 prices are dropping like crazy. I wish I could import one to Canada because I paid the same amount of money for a R8 up here in Canada!

 

Interesting, I emailed my European dealer yesterday to ask when I could get a 458. He said they have no deposits on the car and if I gave a 30,000 Euro deposit I could have the first car. Price with tax (and no options) likely to be Euro 225,000 - quite steep I think. The economy must be really bad.......

 

According to below base MSRP:

2004 F360 F1 = $160,290
2005 F430 F1 = $180,785

Ratio = 1: 1.128



My guess is:

2009 F430 F1 = $199,054(already knew)
2010 458 base MSRP = $199,054 x 1.128 = $224,532(230K range)


Just my own throught, I don't think 458's base MSRP should based on Scud's price, just like when Ferrari first release F430, its base MSRP is $13,000 less than 360 Challenge Stradale's.