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458 challenge -typical weights?

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars' started by rlips, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2011
    873
    New Jersey, USA
    I am considering a 458 challenge. My current track car, a lotus exige cup, is 1980 lbs with fluids and 1/2 tank of fuel. I know a 458 challenge will weigh more, but of course will have more tire, aero and power.

    However, having gotten used to a light car....I was wondering, can anyone give me typical track ready weights?

    Thanks,

    Ron
     
  2. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    528
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Don't know for sure but a track ready Challenge car should be little more than 2800lbs. But you know that Challenge is not an occasional track day car, it is a race car. To run it you need special equipment and a crew even for simple operations like to jack up the car, change the tires and even to refuel.
     
  3. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Thanks, that's about what I thought it might be.


    I'm thinking jacking the car is no more than a nitrogen bottle (easy enough) and proper wand (should come with the car?), and I imagine the fueling is a dry break type system.

    Was planning on getting support, but would also do some myself as well.

    What other special equipment is needed?
     
  4. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    528
    Istanbul, Turkey
    I don't think air jack wand comes with the car. To use the air lift system you need big scuba tanks with proper regulators, heavy duty hoses, and a good air gun for those big mono wheel nuts. You need at least two fuel canisters with these racing type nozzles (I don't know what they are called) One canister to fill the car and another one to take the air out from the gas tank. So it is a two men operation. Plus once the car is up on the air jacks and you need to work on the car, you have to use some sort of steel supports that goes around the air jack pistons to secure the car.

    I am sure there is some more stuff needed but these are the things that come to my mind. But most importantly, you need a good mechanic that knows these cars. A standart Ferrari service technician will not be much of a help.
     
  5. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3
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    You will need an SD3 computer to run the car.
     
  6. Joeyung

    Joeyung Karting

    Mar 9, 2011
    172
    Kentucky
    I run mine by myself, you dont need an SD3 to run the car. I have run mine for three years with only a VCI and I only occasionally need that. I have found this car to be very reliable. I do take a nitrogen bottle to jack up the car and power the air gun to take the single lugs off. I removed one of the dry break fittings and put on a regular fitting (from the same manufacturer) so I can just use the pump gas from the track. My car weighs right at 3,000 lbs with full fuel and passenger seat. I'd be happy to send more information but dont know how to post photos here. Send me a PM if you need anything else.
     
  7. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2011
    873
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    Thanks, that's sort of what I thought. I like the idea of replacing the dry break fitting as well, would make thinks much easier on a non race enviornment.

    I'm fairly handy around a race car, not going to do an engine swap but basic things like fluids, brakes etc are within my skill set.
     
  8. Joeyung

    Joeyung Karting

    Mar 9, 2011
    172
    Kentucky
    I do all that on mine too and have never had to send my car to a dealer for service. I can send you a workshop manual which will show you how to do most services. I have never had support at the track, just me, my car and trailer. Great car.

    PS. I switched from the Carbon rotors to Girodisc. I felt the braking was the same and the pads and rotors are soooo much cheaper.
     
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  9. gatorgreg

    gatorgreg Formula 3
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    Sorry SD3 is for F430. Yes VCI for the 458. I found it mandatory to run the car. You can drive it but at some point you will need one at the track.
     
  10. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    I would have support, just not all the time. Planning on using a shop that specializes in challenge cars and does track support. The idea was not to necessarily need it each time, as I do a lot of days.
     
  11. UAS

    UAS Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2008
    1,173
    Glen Cove, NY
    Where are you located? We are 45 min east of NYC and can assist in any of your needs. We specialize in challenge car sales, support, transportation and shop service. Let me know if you need anything.

    - Pete
     
  12. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2011
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    PM sent
     
  13. mammerman

    mammerman Rookie

    May 20, 2013
    10
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Ammo
    #13 mammerman, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ron I would like to attempt to make a collage of what many have written you in answer to your thread...many of the responses are within my experience, too.

    I transitioned from a 360C to a 430C about two years ago and this year a 458C while keeping the 430C, just in case it was needed.

    My 458C with me in it is yes out a 3000lb weight. It won't feel like it! On support stuff...I use a nitrogen bottle for the jacks and have jack safety stands, also have the single wheel hub wrench and a Makita electric impact wrench. The hub takes 450 lbs torque and thats well within the electric wrench using 115v. Ive got three sets of wheels: usually new tires, rollers, and one set of wets. My support team is Risi Competezione in Houston, but much of the routine work is within my reach in my trackside garage and the on-site shop helps with tires and minor work such as say my cool shirt. Since the other guys are recommending having their own computer for the car I'll ask Risi about it but honestly haven't needed one in either car - likely reason is I go to COTA several times a year with Risi support and their updates and tweaking there seem to be enough. You asked about fueling. I got a Premier filler neck dry on one side and regular Premier neck on the other, this is on my 430C. I need to find one for the 458 as thats the good set up to me. I also have the Jegs hand pump which is really fast 3-5 gpm, and the adapter on the hose which connects to the car's fuel cells. With this I can fuel or off load fuel quickly without driving to the pump or using a red head. I both Track and Race my car. IMHO, and I drive my car weekly, about once a month before an event the car has to be tech inspected and thats a good time to tighten and torque everything, if you don't bang it up frequently, I'd say you can maintain it comfortably but 1-2X year have the team at Risi or Universal go over it and do any tightening, welding etc..thats needed and you'll be set. If you need to buy one talk to Tony at Ferrari Houston as they have a race team and will make the car race ready, no exceptions - which is of course what you want (and me too if Im driving near you!) Have fun!
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  14. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Awesome information, thank you so much. I'm going to be treating a cat in September to see how I like it...my biggest concern is going from a 2200 all in car to a 3000 lb car.. ...I've gotten very used to being able to flick my car into turns.. the appeal of the c458 is more tire, more aero, and the drive train...I want to be able to drive it hard in the corners like my lotus but have the grunt to eat up the straight and arrive faster at the next corner
     
  15. mammerman

    mammerman Rookie

    May 20, 2013
    10
    Houston
    Full Name:
    Ammo
    Ron what a lot of us 458 pilots do is flick the mannetino on the steering wheel to 1 as we enter a curve and then off as we apex, you get the benefit of a great Ferrari traction control whilst doing it and makes this thing very flickable! If you're ever in Houston I'll be glad to show you.
     
  16. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Now actively looking for a car!

    One more question guys....for just track days, will it run on pump gas or does it require 100? Seems it ha the same compression as the street engine (12.5:1) so wondering if pump will suffice....don't mind leaving 1 or 2 % of power on the table for track days. When I decide to race it, another story.

    Thanks,

    Ron
     
  17. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Ron - did you get a 458c?

    I just purchased on and I'm looking to do some converting (fuel filler, brakes to steel, etc) so it's something I can run track days.

    GiroDisc brakes were mentioned earlier... has anyone found any other options?

    Premier fuel systems is the manufacturer of the system, but does anyone know specific part numbers to order for converting to accept pump fuel method?
     
  18. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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  19. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    Nice. What tracks do you run at? I plan to do Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Mid OH, and VIR this summer before taking bringing my car south for winter runs. Looking for people with similar cars to run with and learn from...
     
  20. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    I‘ll be at NJMP, the Glenn, Summit Point etc this year. I’m a member at NJMP so I‘m there a lot, let me know if you’d like to run there
     
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  21. Joeyung

    Joeyung Karting

    Mar 9, 2011
    172
    Kentucky
    I have tried race fuel as well as pump gas and then reviewed the Magnetti reports. On a hot day you need a little more octane but on a normal day pump gas is just fine.
     
  22. windsock

    windsock Formula Junior

    Nov 29, 2006
    422
    Beaverton Oregon
    Pump gas will significantly reduce your power. Which Motronic and Ion software are you running Sync or Non Sync software?
    On pump gas you will always find a lot of ION and timing errors as it is having a very difficult time managing the knock.
    I strongly recommend running the VP 110 fuel. Its not just about the power, poor quality fuel or inadequate fuel can also cause engine damage.
    Most of the published fuel recommendations are European ratings which can very 2-4 points compared with US. A 92 octane in the US is only an 87-89 in Europe.
     
  23. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Rookie
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    I spoke with two teams that campaigned 458c cars and both said there was no issue or meaningful power difference running 100 oct. My driving reason to convert the fuel intake was to one man it on track days rather than brining fueling gear and another person...
     
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  24. Joeyung

    Joeyung Karting

    Mar 9, 2011
    172
    Kentucky
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  25. rlips

    rlips Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2011
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    I get different answers depending on who I ask. One team told me pump gas is fine, another told me they had issues with pump gas. Overall it seems alcohol content and quality variability are of most concern, not necessarily octane. I’m using race fuel with dry break filling. Not too much of an issue, I’m able to handle it with the occasional hand from a friend at the track to vent the other side of the fill system
     

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