458 going in for paint correction and ceramic coating

1) Polishing and ceramic coating are two totally different things so you can't really compare them. Polishing is the process of removing scratches and swirls from the paint while ceramic is a coating sort of like wax that adds shine and hydrophobic qualities that make the car easier to clean. The gist is that while a wax will last a few months, a ceramic coating will serve the same function but last a few years.
2) The process as I know it from many detailers and friends who own detailing companies (also read the forums on www.autogeekonline.net) is that you polish the paint to get all the scratches and swirls out, then apply the paint protection film directly to the paint so yes you're correct here.
3) Yes the clear film goes on the paint to protect it from scratches and rock chips, then you apply wax or ceramic coating on top of that to improve the glossiness and add hydrophobic qualities, which basically repel water which makes cleaning the car a breeze. The wax/ceramic does not have to be directly on the paint to add gloss and putting the film on top of the wax/ceramic defeats the function of making things not stick to the car.
4) Yes this is where I think people get mixed up about this stuff. For some reason a lot of people seem to get the impression that ceramic coatings are supposed to serve the same function as the clear film. The film protects against rock chips and scratches directly in the paint, while the ceramic coating on top of that simply makes it shiny and easier to clean. It's not protecting against scratches and rock chips. With a good wax or ceramic coating you can pretty much spray off most of the dirt and grime with a pressure washer so yep you have the right idea here as well.

The detailer that did my car is actually a user here but I don't know how active he is, so here's a link to my car so you can click through it and the others on his site to get an idea for what's involved: http://www.oakesdetail.com/blog/mclaren-mp4-12c-spider/

From the description for the Corvette: "We then proceeded to wrap the vehicle completely with Xpel Ultimate clear film, and for the most seamless, invisible install, various body pieces and badging was removed. Once all of the film was installed, this Z06 was topped with CQuartz Professional ceramic coating."

From the description for the Aventador: "Once the cuts were repaired and the vehicle then paint corrected, we proceeded forward to wrap the impact area with Xpel Ultimate Clear Film and then ceramic coated the entire vehicle with CQuartz Finest!"

On my own car they wrapped the front end and the lower rear quarter panels with clear film and then coated the entire car with ceramic. This is a guy who gets flown around the country to do private collections and concours detailing so it's not like he's some kid working out of his parents' garage on the weekend. Maybe there are others who do it differently, but this is the only process I've ever seen from the detailers I know and from all the reading I've done on the subject.

 

please explain how this works logically and scientifically? have you ever removed a clear bra? do you know what it looks like?

"The wax/ceramic does not have to be directly on the paint to add gloss and putting the film on top of the wax/ceramic defeats the function of making things not stick to the car"

 

Thanks everyone. 2 trains of thought and never the twain shall meet. Differential seems to be if ceramic is done first, does the film diminish this or make no difference. If done second does the ceramic add gloss and also ease of cleaning.
I guess it comes down to what we have experienced.



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Xpel website says to use sealant on the film, why wld you use ceramic?

Ok it seems no one really knows?

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Ceramic is like using a super sealant.

 

i cant understand spending 3k on ceramic AFTER 7 or 8K on film. call me crazy.

 

Man I should give up

Ceramic is a sealant................ it goes on top of the film just like Xpel says. It doesn't need to be in direct contact with the paint to make the car look glossy. The wax/ceramic itself is the glossy bit, so you can put it on your dog, your toilet, or whatever else you want to put it on and it will make it shiny. The film is very thin and very clear so it's not affecting the look of the paint. I only have about a third of my car wrapped in clear film but the entire thing is coated with ceramic. There's absolutely no difference in the appearance between the panels that have film and those that don't. I'm sure people have different ways of doing things but this is this is the first and only time I've ever heard someone talk about putting film on top of sealants. If you can provide some examples from professionals who do this that would be great.. but after watching a million detailing videos on youtube, reading endless threads on the Autogeek forum, and talking to friends who are professional detailers I've never seen anyone do it that way.

And for what it's worth my film + detail didn't cost nearly that much.. Oakes isn't too far from you!

 

Exactly...

 

I agree.

 

When my car arrives, decided paint correction, full vinyl coat. Then will see how easy to keep clean.


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I have been reading this thread and debated about providing my opinion/experience with "paint coatings" and "paint protection film". But I felt it may be beneficial for some to relay my experience.

Early on, I would do a paint correction on my vehicle then apply a sealant such as Blackfire Wet Diamond and then apply a high grade carnuba wax. The vehicle looked great but after a couple weeks or so, the "look" started to change (i.e. the carnuba wax was deteriorating) due to driving and washing. Not a big deal, as you simply apply another coat of wax. The water beaded well and road grime/bugs was relatively easy to clean off. Since I hate stone chips, I went the route of PPF as it preserves the paint. PPF does a great job of protecting the paint from stones and other road hazards but it needs a protective layer so that road grime and bugs are easier to clean off. I also view PPF as a consumable that should be replaced about every three years when used for a daily driver. I know it will last longer, but for an anal person such as myself, I want the car looking like new.

As time went on, I started to dabble at paint coatings. Like may people, I was hesitant because I was adding a layer to the paint that is not readily removable (you can easily strip waxes from a car). When I bought another DD I put 3M Xpel on the front of the vehicle and then decided to coat the vehicle (including the PPF) with Kamikaze Miyabi coat. Why? For one, although waxes and paint sealants worked fine, it became difficult to keep up with vehicle maintenance during the winter months and these are the months that the vehicle needs it the most. After having the Miyabi coating on the DD, I can tell you that the vehicle has come through the winter looking much better and with much less contamination on/in the paint then before. Likewise, during the summer months, the bugs and road grime are easier to remove. By having the contaminates easier to remove, you have less risk in inducing swirls into the paint as you try to "scrub" the contaminants away. Also, the gloss of the paint is preserved after a grueling winter.

So in conclusion, PPF helps preserve the paint from chips while the paint coating makes the vehicle easier to maintain and keeps it looking better than it would when using traditional waxes. Coatings over the PPF helps in cleaning the grime off of the vehicle and keep stuff from sticking to the PPF. If you are only using your vehicle for the occasional drive (weekends) and don't care about a stone chip or two, then waxing will probably be all you need (especially if you don't drive it in the summer). If you don't like stone chips and want the paint to look like it has just been polished and easy to maintain, then paint coatings are your friend.

 

I noticed in my second to last sentence, I meant to say "...then waxing will probably be all you need (especially if you don't drive it in the winter)." Sorry....

 

Your car could sit a garage 364 days a year... one trip to a cars and coffee or a run and a bird dumping on your finish and etching it or any number of things landing on your paint and damaging it will ruin your day.

There are short term and long term coatings. Some coatings can be installed for as low as $600. It's cheap insurance to protect your finish.

 

I'd rather take this risk than trying to rationalize outright insanity!


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I used Opti-Coat (permanent ceramic) on a DD that is parked outside and it does seem to help prevent bird droppings from etching the paint. I don't really like permanent coatings for enthusiast cars, however, so I have recently started using Opti-Seal (which lasts a long time but is not permanent) and it is amazing. You can put it on top of wax or whatever your normal routine is and it will add a lot of shine and keep the car clean. Crazy easy to use, you can even apply it at the same time you are drying the car.

 

Its about maintenance and the ease of maintenance. Film holds dirt and grime a lot more easily than the factory clear coat. And this makes sense since its softer. The ceramic coating helps the film reject light dirt and grime better. In my own testing I have found the ceramic coatings don't hold up to a lot of exposure to foul weather. Thus, ceramic coating your film is something I would only recommend for fun cars that don't see a lot of foul weather or if you are prepared to send it to your detailer about once a year and likely redo the ceramic coating at that time. On a car that doesn't see foul weather, the coating makes washing and maintaining the finish of the film so much easier. Its well worth it if you are maintaining the finish on your car(s) and the fact that it cuts cleaning time down considerably- especially the drying.

To go slightly off topic- I find ceramic coatings don't really hold up against the elements, so for a true daily driver (that's not a Ferrari), I think the best thing is skip all of this and just accept the stone chips.