458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

http://www.racer.com/comparison-test-mclaren-mp4-12c-vs-ferrari-458/article/206087/

I've not driven the MP4. I sure would like to try one. Often, it is very small and subtle that makes someone prefer 1 car over another. Brake steer is probably a biggie. Any time you do something to interfere with the driver even if the result is or should be faster, it may not be liked.

I didn't like the turn indicators on the steering when it was on the Enzo and I don't care much for it on the 458...it's not wrong, just awkward. But 6 months in, I really don't notice it, pretty much used to it. The steering ratio was shocking to me, also took a bit getting used to it, again...now I love it. All and all, I have a blast driving the 458 every time...that's what the MP4 has to do. Sure, faster lap times, other measurements and specs are all great because we love cars and it matters...but it all has to add up to feel under your butt, sweaty hands, get the car to do what you want and put that smile on your face. Claim is just that, a claim. When it is proven 1 way or another, it is no longer a claim.

Lotus Elise does not much spec to be proud of, and in my opinion, fairly crappily built car. But any version of it is boat loads of fun and always result in grin on face. Lotus has built some great handling and feeling cars, can they build a 458/MP4 beater? I think they are capable of it. Will they? I hope so but not losing my breadth. But they sure have a lot going on between F1 and big ambitions. I hope they have finance to pull it off and I hope they can find an audience that will pay for it. the Evora feels good well liked, but not seeing them flying out of the showrooms. Not many people wants to pay the price for what it is.

They should all learn from the tech industry trying to make an iPad beater. It's not just the specs.

 

I happened to own a GT 2, and it's not that far off an RS. Trust me when I tell you it is nothing short of
Brilliant! Video taken recently at Mosport, against even higher hp cars.

http://www.vimeo.com/25388899

 

Yes! But I dont really mind

 

I would love to see the pictures of it. What interior color?

 

well that article has been about as kind, and charitable, to the new McLaren as any ... but at the end of the day, the 458 is still the winner

"But for my money, it's Ferrari that better knows how to make a supercar."

 

+1.

 

That article is just a reprint of the Autocar article.

 

It is a nero interior with grigio stitching, racing seats and dual leather/alcantara interior (also nero alcantara). Carbon fiber racing package. Exterior has shields, 20" forged sport wheels painted dark grey, dark sports sills, yellow calipers and carbon front winglets.

I will openly admit to having drawn heavy inspiration from Mike's car which you can see here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/vodcars/sets/72157625696856278/

 

Better make that 4-0 to the Fezza Fifth Gear didn't like the Mclaren either last Friday.

 

Case in point.

Like you said earlier, McLaren have failed on two fronts here: 1) The professional driving front (Tiff has issues with it), and 2) The public image issue.

We all know that other great drivers have driven the McLaren without such nasty hitches, but Tiff's abilities and experience should render any car "putty in his hands" when he desires. The fact that the Macca won't cooperate with him is not good.

The big issue, though, is the poor Youtube effect (the public image) that this car has generated. The public at large will simply search for "Top Gear/Fifth Gear/Autocar/Evo McLaren MP4-12C" in order to get an informed opinion on the characteristics of the car, and they will most likely seek out no further information. All of the information out there at this point (except Harris's and Sutcliffe's first reviews of the car, which involved no real testing) are very sub-par. Comparing that to the Ferrari is bad to begin with, but in reality I think the bigger issue for McLaren is the incredible, iconic status of the original F1. The F1 exceeded all expectations and catapulted to the forefront of supercardom, the 12C is falling short and will quickly be forgotten in the shadow of its older brother, which, despite being over 15 years old, has developed quite the Youtube personality.

Speaking of EVO, has anyone read the recent comparison article? There are videos up on their sight of it, albeit absent Harris.

 

L(ots) O(f) T(rouble) U(sually) S(eriuos) ...
But I full agree with you. I own a 111S mk1 version racing green called 'the green bathtube' because when it rain ...

 

i've seen that episode, and i was shocked at how it spat out Tiff!!! he is a very adept driver and that car completely shook him up. absolutely dangerous. Jason didn't have very much fun either, to put it mildly.

 

I normally don't do this but I found this really to funny not to publish.

I have been reading in mclarenlife forums to see what fans thought of these tests and obviously a lot of them think the Mc is still the best and so on...

The best comment though was: " heard from dealer GM after second email..........he mentioned that the 458 might have been modified for the test.........and that the 'driver' did not dial in the suspension correctly.........waiting on official remarks from Woking"

Why don't they just concentrate on the failings of their McLaren instead?

So funny though to see them scramble to find some good excuses for the poor tests

Weird how the old review of Autocar was compared to the new test. Have a look at the old one: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/McLaren-MP4-12C-3.8-V8/255434/

 

reasons why the 458 spanked it:

1. Ferrari cheats
2. Ferrari cheats
3. It was the driver/testers fault that the Mp wasn't fast

no shock there.

 

It's hilarious reading the threads over at McLarenlife. 6th element, in particular, seems to have gone into melt down. He's providing an object lesson in denial.

 

My personal remarks.
McLaren fanboys passed all previous months writing something similar to this (not only in Ferrari chat):

<<BUT if your car does not get a sniff of the Macca on the track trailing it by several seconds, then you don't have a sportscar anymore, you have a great sounding toy>>

Than, after first (negative) magazine reviews, they passed to accuse Ferrari, once again, of using cars not representative of the production.

<< Heavily modified 458, with extended use of challenge parts >>
<< Bigger brakes, higher rpm and sticky tires>>

I had doubts me too reading some weight numbers, I posted few times with clear explanations.
I did not receive any answer from them.
This make me wonder if they really are truly car enthusiasts or only some wicked soccer fans that are only able to soil opposing team ...

 

There's another one doing the rounds now: "It's just the U.K. press who like to build something up just so they can knock it down." Talk about desperation...

 

They are seriously in denial there. This is a typical example -

"ferrari PR have been doing their job again unfortunatley,The 458 in the mag test,which the 12c was faster in a straight line and around corners,looked like a standard car used in previous ferrari tests,but the car in the show around Dunsfold is reg 599tv which is one of the 2 which keep breaking all previous 458 lap records.Thet certainly know how to play the game!!"

Interesting skewing of the facts considering McLaren was the ONLY manufacturer to provide a separate car for the track test at Rockingham in Car magazine The 458s used by both Car and EVO were the SAME car and both magazines reported that Ferrari were not allowed to touch it between the road and track tests.

Oh and they are a bit tetchy if you go on there with anything other than positive views about the 12C though our old friend krzys happily owns up to doing the very same here

"Quote:
Originally Posted by zippycar View Post
Interesting fact I just read on ferrarichat.com and their many pages of wishing the 458 was better than the 12C

"It is a bit disappointing since McLAren-quoted weight is 1434 kg. So, it is off by 30 kg. However, the quoted weight of 1485 for Italia is utter fantasy. The lightest independently weighed US car was 1585 kg and that's with the lightest equipment possible"

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...=327242&page=3

Quote:
Originally posted by krzys
Oh, that's me trying to stir up a fight ."

 

That's certainly true to an extent, but I don't think that's the case in this scenario.

Jason and Tiff looked positively out of control in the 12C, and perfectly in command in the 458. I think it's clear that McLaren has - at best - built a car with odd and counter-intuitive handling characteristics.

It's a bit of a shame, as I actually prefer the aesthetics of the 12C to the 458. So I did want to hear from the tests that the two cars were on a par for all things that matter in driving: performance, handling, experience, etc - it just wasn't the case.

Not that I'm unhappy Ferrari built a great car, I had just hoped they'd have a little more competition from McLaren to urge future development and make things interesting.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

McLaren buyers should get a crumb of comfort from next week's Top Gear tv review. The 12C will almost certainly post a faster lap time on their track as the original TG 458 test would have been done on either the Bridgestone or Michelin Pilot Sport tyre options available at the launch of the car. TG do not update lap times to take account of any series production improvements. We already know the 12C on Corsa tyres was only a 1/10th of a second slower than the 458 fitted with the new SuperSport option tyre around Dusfold from the 5th Gear review. A faster lap time on TG should therefore be taken with this info in mind. It should definately out accelerate the 458 on the runway test they use to satisfy the American drag racer viewers.

What will be interesting to see is if Jeremy Clarkson, a much less adept wheelman than Tiff Needell or Jason Plato, ends up doing a bit of grass cutting as well. I personally don't care about the lap times but the handling issue and lack of emotional involvement (as reported in nearly all of the reviews) from a car at this level would bother me. Been there, done that with an R8 but it costs a fraction of the 12C's price and was a great car at that price point.

One thing seems pretty certain. The cars McLaren used for the press launch in Portugal seem to be a world away in terms of set up from the cars given for magazine and tv reviews. Now.... who mentioned the use of ringers??? Read Chris Harris's column in EVO this month where he mentions this practice (and cites an example of the Aston Martin DB9 launch) where journalists are given cars to review that bear no relation to the final set up sold to customers. I wonder why he specifically chose to mention that in the 12C test issue

 

I can't imagine there are many Ferrari drivers who are actually gloating over this, no mater how good it makes the 458 look. Even if your allegiance is firmly with Ferrari, as a car fan the poor showing from McLaren has to be disappointing.

 

well now ... imagine that

 

My wife said that she felt sorry for McLaren after watching the 5th gear comparison! They got a bit of a lashing to be sure. Two top drivers just could not get on with it - but you could tell that they wanted to. I am disappointed that the car is not lighter than it is (after all the hype) and surprised that the handling seems to have some issues (its biggest and most unforgiveable sin).

 

but ya gotta feel sorry, too, for the would-be buyers who actually believed the McLaren marketing machine, drank the pre-production koolaid, and put down a deposit based on promises of 'game-changing' technology

 

My reaction to the Mac lovers is...

instead of claiming Ferrari cheated, what they should be doing is asking WHY their car didn't perform better.

Forget that the Italia was even in the testing. The REAL car owners McLaren want to attract are not Ferrari owners but Porsche owners who long for something beyond the 911 with that German sort of feel and dependibility.

Having the "old technology" Porsche also beat it hurts more than losing to the 458.