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458 Italia vs McLaren MP4 Blighty - The UK press decides

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by JazzyO, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. fuse

    fuse Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2004
    340
    I like this picture.

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/26138/images/026w%20(11).jpg

    That's how you keep pizza warm!

    and this reminds me of...

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/26138/images/mclaren-tool-box.jpg

    ...the tool kit in the McLaren F1, it wasn't in a case, but wrapped in leather (I think, it has been a long time since I got to play with the car.) and were in a gold-ish hue. I pulled one out and I swear that it is so light, kind of like the difference between standard Ferrari lug bolts and the Stradale/Scuderia titanium bolts. I am sure someone here will know what they are made out of. They were beautiful to look at and amazingly light in your hands.



     
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  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #927 TheMayor, Jun 30, 2011
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  4. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818
    Slow and lardy yet it's beaten the MC around two tracks already??

    The ONLY thing the MC does better than a 458 is drag race.
     
  5. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818
    They had to pulled out "super-spin gun" to clean up this mess. haha
     
  6. fuse

    fuse Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2004
    340
    I just saw this on CAR's site. I've not read the articles, I may have to run out to pick up the magazines.

    http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/26136/attachments/supercartrackv3.pdf

    It's kind of interesting to me to see the sector times break down...

    MP4 lost ~.5 second in sector 1, CAR indicated turn 1 was the only corner that nanny didn't intervene in the MP4. That leaves turn 2 hairpin, rest of the sector 1 should favor MP4...so it lost that much time in the hairpin? Is it braking into the hairpin? 5th gear Jason Plato said that the brakes were good, but nervous. (Wish they posted the sector time for MP4 with corsa tires, it should have big impact going into turn 2.)

    MP4 lost time in all 3 sectors, the most time lost in sector 3 compared to 458. I can see the 458 excel in sector 3 going thru turns 10-11-12. This is also where GT2 RS lost time too...so I wonder if forced induction is losing out to the throttle response of normally aspirated engines.

    I am guessing turns 2 and 9 is not favoring Turbo cars, yet GT2 RS matched 458 times in sector 1...horsepower + rear engine braking into turn 2?

    What a fun day they must've had. Turns 2-8 seems resemble Laguna Seca 2-7 without the elevation change. Turns 9-12 seems just like California Speedway part oval configuration. Sure would have loved to see CGT mixed in the test.

    I also wonder when McLaren re-ran the EVO test course with corsas and their own setup/test driver, did they completely turn off the nannies? Because they can.

    Some of the comments about how McLaren said that, give them .5 hour to setup the car for the track and conditions and it will go faster...but that isn't really valid because you can do that always, to a certain degree. My Stradale was very sensitive to just alignment changes, and even bigger difference changing ride height. Slight alignment changes will make the car easier to drive or more frisky. I'd imagine the MP4 is a good chassis and can be adjusted accordingly...but the point is that we drive these cars on crappy roads, and tracks are all very different...so the factory setup is a compromise that tries not to kill most people on the road and be good all around on various mountain roads and tracks. It may just be MP4 does not compromise well...at the moment at least.

    I know we are on FChat and we are giving the MP4 a little hard time. :) But I think it is only a bigger topic because what McLaren boasted about being top of the supercar heap and kicking Ferrari butts, being a game changer, out of the gate. They have done a fine job so far, and clearly have more to improve...which I am sure they will. I am quite happy that they are here to do so. I want Ferrari to step up and make better cars that I am proud of as I love the marque and being a Ferrari F1 fan. And they have. While I observed very good steps taken from F355 to now...458 was quite a large step and I am sure McLaren's road car effort impacted that. More importantly to me, it is a super easy car to live with every day, and yet it can become the car I wanted in the Stradale at any time. I love the 458. I am super happy with it. I can't wait to drive an MP4 to see for myself!

    (Except the ride height, damn you DOT!)
     
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  8. tuttavelocita

    tuttavelocita Formula 3

    Aug 26, 2007
    1,453
    I also heard that ferrari is using their new flux capacitor technology on the press cars. This creates an unbeatable sounds coming from the unit and at 88 mph its game over for any other car manufacturer.


    Really now? Instead of accepting the fact that a company that has been in business since 1947 has experience in building a car that engages all your visceral senses from walking up to the car, touching the body of the car, grabbing the steering wheel, turning on the engine and driving it. Ferrari knows speed is a factor of building a supercar, but you also have to look at it, listen to it, and feel it. It needs to inspire you and scare you but most of all it has to move you.

    Mclaren did this with the F1 and it is an amazing machine that most of us respect and would love to own or own already. The car was everything you expected from a race team, raw, advanced, loud and made babies cry and women faint. They forgot where they came from with the MP4. The looks are neither here or there, they aren't as elegant or beautiful as the SLS or 458 and not as outrageous as the Lamborghini or Gumpert. From what all the reviews are saying the turbo's muffle the engine too much which might be fixed with down pipes and exhaust, but who knows how that motor will sound. Also it might be too technologically advanced for the average buyer, with brake steer and their suspension set up it might be too intuitive.

    I would love a chance to drive a Mclaren and i probably will drive one and compare it to my 458, but like when the GTR came out, technology isn't everything. I don't want to pay 300K for a videogame driving experience, i want to hear and feel my car as I push it through its paces. (which is why i also have a lotus exige S240)
     
  9. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #932 TheMayor, Jun 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2011
    Fuse:

    I think actually we've been pretty tame. Look at the posts we got about how wonderful the McLaren is going to be compared to the old fashioned Ferrari. It went on for days without end -- even though we said we liked the Mac and didn't care if we "lost".

    Next we heard constantly how Ferrari doesn't care about it's customers and how "well" they have been treated at McLaren. Yah...all the Mac owners still waiting on when their cars will be delivered because they can't get their electronics sorted out. Great way to treat your best customers...

    Now, when the chips are on the table and the stop watches come out by an independant press, there's either complete silence or the blame game -- except the blame game is not at how poorly McLaren did but how Ferrari cheated.

    Given the hostility that we have had to endure in this forum since the Mp4 was introduced, I think the payback has been extremely gracious.

    And, I would like to add that cars are just fun. We shouldn't take them so seriously. If you can't joke about cars, then your priorities are in the wrong places.
     
  10. fuse

    fuse Formula Junior

    Aug 11, 2004
    340
    I said a "little" hard time! :)
     
  11. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    #934 TheMayor, Jun 30, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Apparently even McLaren themselves is spreading the "Ferrari cheats" banner with their customers.

    Sorry, this is mighty low. McLaren... you should be ashamed.

    From another forum which will go unmentioned:
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  13. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
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    There it is....
     
  14. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818
    Well said and summed....
     
  15. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
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    All I can say is, wow.....

    They even had the damn car and couldn't figure it out??

    Sounds like Mclaren's corporate culture is not well structured. Someone must have known how good the 458 drove but was scared to say anything because Dennis had his big head up his arse and would probably slap down any suggestion that he didn't know exactly what he was doing.

    That's how things go wrong.....
     
  16. Rcktrod

    Rcktrod F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2010
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    + 1. Well put. You're a class act Bob.
     
  17. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

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    Wait a sec. If Ferrari cheats, then can't the same be said about Porsche and Lamborghini? They both spanked the MP4 around the CAR track.
     
  18. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    No because Chris Harris didn't say so... Remember he is the bastion of truth, a veritable beacon of truth, integrity, and honor

    :p
     
  19. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

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    that 'old school' Lambo Spyder is still a fantastic machine. i love it's looks, how it sounds, and it can actually hold its own outside of 'posing':) but then again, Lambo also cheated, they sent in a ringer. a 3,800lb ringer that went faster than the end all be all of super sports cars..the MP4-12.."didn't i tell you lets wait and C" :)
     
  20. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

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    wow...i need to quote 'Cleveland' from "Family Guy" on this one. ... "that's just saaaad" :)
     
  21. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    No, because Ron's obsession is Ferrari. Being beaten is not important, being beaten by Ferrari is a matter of life and death.
     
  22. isuk

    isuk Formula 3

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    #944 isuk, Jul 1, 2011
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    The excuses being trotted out by McLaren now are just incredulous.... I'd like to know how McLaren "know" of these alledged 12 different mod's without taking the test 458 into a workshop and stripping it down?? None of the guys on that site EVER question the BS coming from the Woking PR operation. I'd also love to know what "aero" was supposedly modified to give a major advantage?? The 458 in Car's pic's is fitted with all of the normal external aero.
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  23. deppi0

    deppi0 Formula 3

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    I love going on that forum to read the crazy excuses they are coming with! Let's play devil's advocate here and say that the 458 might have been a ringer.... How could McLaren or anyone else know unless they took it apart? I can't believe dealers are coming up with those excuses! And as someone said before what about the fact that it got destroyed by Porsche and Lamborghini as well?????
     
  24. isuk

    isuk Formula 3

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    Note they are not responding to the issues I raised on the "Does Ferrari cheat in road tests?" thread.
     
  25. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    #947 Lesia44, Jul 1, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
    And, of course, not one of the testers nor professional racing drivers who drove the 458 spotted any of the 12 mods. McLaren need to stop this, they're just making themselves look silly. Very silly indeed. Besides, if they truly believe that the 458 was a 'ringer' then why not make an official statement rather than just whispering? Why wouldn't you if you knew for sure that your new road car division had taken such a huge PR hit straight out of the starting gate due to a blatant 'ringer' from the competition? Their silence speaks volumes...
     
  26. deppi0

    deppi0 Formula 3

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    I have been reading your posts there... very interesting and you are totally right they don't answer the question at all.

    Basically nobody can prove if Ferrari was a ringer (btw I don't believe so) but they keep talking about it!
     
  27. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    It really is sad isnt it.....if I am not mistaken it wasnt one car sent to all the english press but different 458's were used.

    At the end of the day a British Touring Car Champion didnt like it and spun it, a former F1 driver didnt like it and spun it so how fast it is in the hands of the average joe is open to debate...
     
  28. Lesia44

    Lesia44 F1 World Champ
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    We might see quite a few of these in a ditch or up a tree unless McLaren are offering a 12 week driving course with every car.
     

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