If Ferrari puts real tires on the 458 Italia (Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, or the PS2 with PSC compound used in the ZR-1), the lap times will drop everywhere (Fiorano, Nurburgring, etc). The Ferrari Pirelli Corsa race tires that came in my Scuderia are not great, they are pretty good in the rain, but that's it. I ran them back to back with another set of tires, they were 5-6.5 secs slower on a 60 secs lap compared to my Hoosiers. The Toyo R888 is just 3.5-5 secs behind the same Hoosiers, or about 1.5 secs faster than the Pirelli. The Michelin Pilot Sport Cup is a better and faster tire than the R888 on dry conditions, this is the tire that Porsche has been using in the GT2/GT3 to show those amazing Nurburgring lap times, Porsche didn't use the Pirelli Corsa System to set the record laps on the GT2/GT3/GT3 RS despite the tires being available for these cars. If Ferrari takes the 458 Italia on Michelin Sport Cups, sets the proper alignment, I firmly believe the car will be lapping the ring faster than the 7:39 ran by the Scuderia on private hands (Sport Auto-Germany). However, the Scuderia on the same Michelin Sport Cups will drop its times as well. Weight is the enemy on a race track or road course. There is no way that the 458 Italia can keep up on a race track with the 400 lbs lighter Ferrari with a better suspension (the 458 Italia rear suspension is a step back, due to engine and getrag transmission size constraints). The 458 Italia will accelerate quicker thanks to the closer ratio transmission and the new engine, but everywhere else (braking, turn entry, mid turn, turn exit) the Scuderia has the advantage. I hope Ferrari builds a 458 Stradale/Scuderia as light or lighter than the current Stradale/Scuderia, they could offer A/C delete, manual windows (already offered in the Scuderia), magnesium wheels, Titanium exhaust, and that will make it happen.
how are the Toyo R888's in the wet compared to the Pirelli's? are they better in both dry and wet? also, did you run stock size wheels witht the new tires? also, what is that 'PSC' compound in the new PS2's? thanks..
Lots of academic speculation here but the reality is that an Enzo, a 430 Scuderia and a 458 have to be tested on the same day in the same conditions to be comparable (EVO hasn't tested one yet to my knowledge). Given technology's march, however, I'd guess they'd all test within a few tenths. But still, when determining which is "best", you'd have to define the parameters explicitly: A pure track car? A weekend canyon sprinter? An all-round GT/sports car? A Fiorano lap time is a measure of track-speed but far from defining a road machine's competence. We don't drive spreadsheets after all. ; )
1,23.9 for Scuderia is not correct and 1,24.9 for Enzo is with bridgestone RE050A So real time lap in fiorano are : Enzo 1,22.3 (With Pirelli P-Zero corsa and wheel alignment) Enzo 1,24.9 (With Bridgestone RE050A) 430 Scuderia 1,25.0 (With Pirelli P-Zero corsa) 458 Italia fiorano lap time have not been confirmed, but a 1,25 could be realistic with michelin pilot sport or pirelli P-Zero (Hero) Luque
Well, this web site says 1:23.9 for the Scuderia IS correct. www.fastestlaps.com/track26.html Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's a mistake. Michael Schumacher drove for quattruote magazine a 430 scuderia in a five lap test during a sunny day. He lapped in 1,28.0. There was three seconds difference between best lap of Scuderia because of track temperature (it was a very hot day, normally time attack will be performed in the morning at about 9 am). Remember that a normal F430 lap in : 1,27.0 with P-Zero corsa (so 2 seconds difference with scuderia with same tyres) 1,28.5 with P-Zero rosso Luque
It was a VERY hot day and the conditions weren't ideal. At least that's what he said in the Quattroruote article.
Give us some proof other than what you think is correct. You are just plain wrong. Here's another web site that says you are wrong. www.smh.com.au/executive-style/430-scuderia-hotlapping-ferraris-fastest-car-20090518-b862.html Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here's another chart comparing the Scuderia to other cars and to various tracks. You will see the Scuderia's time is 1:23.9 on Fiorano. Faster than the Enzo. Image Unavailable, Please Login
jeff, Website you posted says exactly what I have written. 430 scuderia lapped in 1,25.0 exactly 1,5 second faster than 599 GTB (1,26.5) and matching Enzo fastest lap (It's not written but it's 1,24.9 with bridgestone RE050A) Fastest lap is not a proof. Every registered person can post time, me too. (I'm registered) And to be honest check Enzo figures. How can be a Scuderia faster on track ? It matchs a Enzo only because has stocke pirelli p-zero corsa. My source ? People working in Ferrari. Luque
Another confirmation I'm not wrong http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/112_0808_2008_ferrari_430_scuderia_test/index.html Luque
I know, I have many laps in a scud at Fiorano at hot days. 1.28 is not that fast. And for what I know scud is faster then the enzo around Fiorano. CS is faster then the F50. Not strange, technology is going forward. Scud has better brakes, faster shifts, better traction. Fiorano is not all about HP.
Not agree with you my friend. A 430 Scuderia have only E-diff (so better traction) and in this case tyres advantage (also braking system is better). Enzo have better chassis and it's much more powerful with wider tyres. Its body developes 50% more downforce than a 430 scuderia. Than faster shifts give a minimal advantage, only a few tenths of seconds per lap. With some tyres there is no competition. That's true also for 360CS - F50 comparison. A F50 (that used stock Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-Fiorano) with P-Zero corsa and right alignement will be much faster in Fiorano than 1,27.0 Luque
According to an article I read on the Italian EVO some time ago, the main reason why the Scud was as fast as the Enzo around Fiorano is the better tires. An Enzo with the new Pirellis would be significantly faster than the Scud according to them.
These lap time threads amuse me to some extent because a lap time is about as relevent to a feel of a car as a one day stay in Italy would be to gauge local culture, so in other words to me a lap time is just that, a top trumps figure used to try and impress. Lets be honest with 562 bhp the 458 is not likely to be slow neither is it likely to wallow around corners like a whale and most importantly no amount of figures can actually compare to driving the car. Figures will never define a car but the driving experience does. Just my 2c
I absolutely agree with you. I think a Lotus Elise (that I owned) is a better driving experience than a lot of sport car with better power and accelation figures. Fiorano lap times are just a discussion basis not more. I will never buy a Ferrari looking at how much is faster in Fiorano track. Luque
Exactly. Patience, people. None of these "lap times" is worth the pixels you read them on without consistency in test methodology. Besides, that website seemed to quote times that don't have a source and marketing departments (especially Ferrari's) has a knack for fiction.
