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458 or 488

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ttforcefed, Jul 18, 2019.

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458 or 488

  1. 458

    195 vote(s)
    73.3%
  2. 488

    71 vote(s)
    26.7%
  1. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

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    you guys crack me up. :D
     
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  2. ipsedixit

    ipsedixit Formula Junior

    FIFY
     
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  3. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Rookie
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    Nah its because they are selling so cheap :)
     
  4. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Rookie
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    One of the gains going from 488 > Pista of F8 is the increase cooling of the Intercooler. Quoted 15 degrees. In Turbo terms thats a great decrease in Temp.

    Im not sure if anyone has ever noticed the 488 having less power at high temperatures but cooler air intake is a massive plus and I dare say Ferrari knows that hence the increase.

    The F8 with the Pista engine , well that was a real surprise. Then you can start adding all the other differences.

    Is it worth going 488 > F8 , in a way yes but it would be based largely on the trade difference. If there was a 488 and a F8 in the show room I believe I would pick the F8 Actually if there was a 458 also I would just pass it
     
  5. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

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    F8 looks much better in real life just the back is a little :confused:
     
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  6. Hardistyfezza

    Hardistyfezza Formula Junior

    Interesting thread this, it has more twists and turns than the UK Brexit debacle.

    Anyway: for me buy the car that speaks to you and for the reasons that suit your circumstances.

    Some must have the latest, fastest, most expensive - a statement car - good luck to you. In away we are all peacocks driving these cars.
    Others value tradition, last N/A, last Pininfarina design etc, 9000 red line etc - again as we age and our car experience evolves (I’m mid 50s) we maybe at the time didn’t appreciate what potentially great cars I traded through, example E39 M5 I bought new and sold in less than a year, and a Lancia Integrale Evo 3, to name but two both of which I didn’t truly appreciate at the time. We get caught up in the emotion of owning the latest and supposedly greatest at that moment in time and this is normal.

    But really guys, these are all potentially 190-200mph cars, sub 3.5 0-60 sprinters with more than enough performance to relevant on the public roads - neither are a bad choice, and whether you are posturing or fanatical enjoy what we are blessed to own because if the electric car brigade get totally their own way then in the future engine noise will be a thing of the past - maybe they will pipe in the sound of the 458

    Me I love my 458 it has qualities I value, but I neither care or expect others to agree, sure I will voice my opinions, after all its kind of fun, but I don’t hate the 488 or disrespect it’s supporters or owners - they have their personal reasons, just like me.

    Have a great day girls and boys.
     
  7. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,181
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    For me since the 360 Modena the 488 is the first that does not feel underpowered - and that's why it's the one that made me shift from V12 to V8.
    Up to the 355 (which, btw, makes much more sense for someone not looking after performance) the chassis, brakes, etc. were objectively such crap that the available power overwhelmed the rest of the car - but the 360 was a real leap forward in this respect, to the extent that the power really felt benign. Following cars had power increases but the chassis continued to evolve, so that the 458 still cannot hide by its shouting that it wants more power.
    Of course the 488 will accept more power - that's what the F8 will give - but it does not desperately need it.
    As for statement car, I do not think it's relevant here - I prefer the 488 to the 458, and will replace the 488 by an F8, but I suppose that if I'd be interested in prestige rather than driving I'd have gone for a Pista (which I declined); and my understanding is that the best for this purpose would be the Pista Spider (which I hate - because an allegedly track-oriented spider doesn't make sense to me - and cannot afford anyway ;) )
     
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  8. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Nuno
    LVP488 makes a great point: the V12 and V8 crowds are usually very different in taste and what they value.

    It’s interesting to see that the V8 crowd doesn’t think they’re underpowered at all. Quite the opposite: the 488 is too much and impossible to explore outside a racetrack, and the F8’s advantages over a Pista, given the same engine, is pure marketing with no real world, palpable impact.

    The V12 crowd on the other hand, can’t live for the most part with fewer cylinders, fewer capacity and fewer power. They couldn’t live with a V8 for all sorts of reasons, 99% of which I understand, even though there are contemporary Ferrari V8s superior in performance than V12 (458 vs FF for instance).

    Most points one side makes is all but incomprehensible to the other side.

    At one point, I owned Ferrari V8s and a V12 (2002 575M F1). If asked what I preferred, it would be like making my choose between my mother or my father.

    Although interesting points, if we can’t even all agree in the NA vs forced induction debate, comparing V12s to V8s would be all the more complicated if not impossible, although I perfectly get both sides of the equation.

    Power is like money: for a given person is plenty, for another one simply not enough.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  9. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    One of the best, most balanced and articulate posts I’ve read here on this subject. My congratulations, sir.

    On a very biased and personal note, you nailed it; I very much esteem tradition over a lot of things. Not always, but when it comes to Ferrari, you bet.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  10. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Tradition, with a lot of electronics and a DCT - it doesn't add up for me...
     
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  11. CrapsLuckyDice

    Apr 28, 2019
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    Dave
    I like the 458.

    I actually grew up not idolizing Ferrari but rather Lamborghini (specifically the Countach) and the older Corvettes (specifically the 1981 Stingray which was slow as hell). I also read about how supposedly the Ferrari crowd were a bunch of stuck up ****. I can tell you firsthand experience this is not true, plus you guys here on the forum are great! Thus, it took me a while to work up to buy any sort of Ferrari because of my personal likes, then the *stigma* associated with ownership - and let's not forget $$$.

    My personal purchase of exotic cars really only start 3 years ago, although my love for cars, and specifically exotic cars have been there for 35+ years or so. The first purchase I made was a Maserati (I consider the sibling to Ferrari). I got a taste of the styling and exhaust note which made me realize just how nice an Italian car can be. Next up was a McLaren and this looked like a toy car (wife called it that) that was a rocketship on wheels. It generated way too much attention and had too many issues, but it gave me an idea how the British build their cars - lots of carbon fiber (tubs anyone). Third was my AMG GTS, which while not a proper exotic, was really more of a luxury coupe with boatloads of power (and mine is tuned to 650hp). I call this a true grand tourer with one of the most amazing interiors I have personally experienced and which I still own. Finally, my most recent purchase was my current 458 spider which I'll go into more detail why I love below.

    All my cars mentioned above, with the exception of the 458, and including the cars I grew up loving, are all naturally aspirated. Having experienced nothing but twin turbos the past 3 cars, I just don't like the immediate lurch felt when you punch the gas. Plus, the exhaust note coming from a naturally aspirated car is just, in my opinion, that much better. Second, I always mentioned I love the lines of this car. I can't put my finger on it, but I just knew this was the ONE car I had to get from Ferrari. It's sort of like knowing you found "the one". And, when I say I love my the lines on my Ferrari, I mean I literally go daily into my garage, walk around the car and feel while just taking a step back and admiring the lines. This happens multiple times through the day and lasts for about 5-10min each time and with no rhyme or reason. Third, this is the first car I really want to actually spend extra money on to buy accessories, upgrades, whathaveyou - and that's a biggie for me as I never do or did that with any of my current or previous cars. This car brought out something in me that just makes me want to pamper it and ensure that it stays as beautiful tomorrow as it did on its first day. Finally, I find this car a complete joy to drive. I don't intend to track it, but I do find it immensely pleasurable just being able to sit in my seat and not worry about something breaking down when I change gears or go over speed bumps, etc. and I will admit it has been even more comfortable to drive than my daily driver car!!
     
  12. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I love the 458 as well.

    Don’t know if you actually drove a Countach but it is the most uncomfortable car l have ever been in. The peddles are off center so you have to sit at an angle to drive it. And there is no view out the rear. Backing up the car is like playing Russian Roulette with bullets in five out of the six chambers. As they said on the Fifth Gear showdown between the F40 and the Countach...they should have left the Lambo poster on the wall and forget about driving the bloody thing. :)
     
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  13. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
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    Most exotic car owners, especially Ferrari guys, in my milieu, never pay any attention to the forums, including this one.
     
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  14. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And yet you post here?
     
  15. CrapsLuckyDice

    Apr 28, 2019
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    Dave
    I never had a chance to. However, I did watch a video by Doug Demuro as well as some other one-off YouTube videos on the Countach. And yes, everything you mentioned was stated. In particular how hard it was to view out the back (non-existent is probably the best word). It was like Lamborghini carved this out of stone purely as a work of art but forgot it was meant to be used as a driving machine.
     
  16. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

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    I clearly have an interest.
     
  17. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    But it doesn’t influence anyone so why bother? You just like to waste time?
     
  18. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Despite the abundance of non owners here there is some serious representation of heavy artillery in this thread alone!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  19. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

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    Come on guys, the forum is for everyone! If you dont have a Ferrari but you like the brand, you're welcomed here.
    Some years ago I was just watching you guys post nice things of your F cars while dreaming of owning one, one day.
     
  20. Coincid

    Coincid Formula 3

    Dec 9, 2014
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    Not understanding your point.
     
  21. Hardistyfezza

    Hardistyfezza Formula Junior

    Tradition is an interesting point, depending on why you start from.

    For example the first DCT transmission was designed but not built by the Frenchman Adolphe Kegresse just prior to the Second World War, the first commercial automobile application was in the early 1980s almost forty years ago.
    Porsche experimented with DCT transmissions as early as 1964.

    Way before many Ferrari cars we now all hold in almost mythical traditional status we’re even designed.

    Indeed the first traction control system was electronically controlled and offered as an option on the 1971 Buick branded as “Max Trax”

    So my point is this, these are not new inventions or indeed applications of technology, merely aids to how comfortable the product is, to use or safety nets to maximise our enjoyment at that period in time that the car is relevant.

    We must remember that all generations of Ferrari occupy a certain period in time, influenced by the economic outlook (oil crisis), road safety campaigns etc and most recently environmental groups and pressures from the wider media - certain cars merely use technology as a sticking plaster (band aid) whilst others move on the game by reviving perhaps old technology (DCT) and taking a bigger step - the 458 was one of those landmark cars.

    Yes it will be bettered and it probably has in many respects by the 488 and the like, but we should remember the 458 serves as the basis for the 488 until the next landmark change car arrives. When perhaps we will all be looking back discussing the merits of the 488 against the latest steeds and their lack of any noise, and perhaps even debating the prices “classic 458s” are making in the classic traditional car world.

    It’s that crazy a world.
     
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  22. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    And the CVT aka continuously variable transmission was invented by Leonardo de Vinci.

    Not a fan of the cvt.
     
  23. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    We miss the Daf ;)
     
  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #274 paulchua, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    As I mentioned earlier, I think the 458 preferred because of the 488's middle child syndrome.

    The 458 has enough unique propositions vis-a-vis to the 488 that enough people will seek it out.

    The F8 improves on the specific elements of the 488 that people that do prefer the 488 over the 458 seek. The F8 is the 'better 488'. Not to mention the Pista!

    So, it's stuck in the middle.

    Not saying any car by any means is 'bad' or any other derogatory sentiment. Just that if you had the choice between a carbed 400,400i or a 412. It will of course be a 412 if you seek the latest and greatest, and the 400 if you love carbs. It leaves the 400i as a 'transitory' model - nothing bad about this, just that it's pretty easy to argue the 412i is more desirable over the 400i to most folks. To folks that prefer carburetors, it's easy for them to choose their preference - it would be the 400. That leaves the 400i as the middle child.

    Just my $0.02.
     
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  25. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    This is 100% correct. Ownership of a Ferrari is never a litmus test to participation anywhere here. Everyone is welcome! (except trolls) haha
     

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