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Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ttforcefed, Jul 18, 2019.
The 458 has a cult following. Useless to argue.
Im saying the majority of enthusiasts wld choose 458 over 488... this poll is evidence of that.
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Thats right. Things have cult followings for a reason, usually for some type of x factor that contributes to the character of something in a special way above and beyond the 5 senses.
In theory, that’s not enough to disregard poll results. Even if there were more 458 owners, there could be general dissatisfaction regarding the car and the 488 would be leading the poll, which isn’t the case.
A more pertinent question imho would be: of the people who voted, who actually can buy and has bought one, the other, or both. That would indicate some sort of preference by the people who can buy them which, in term, may be a reference point for future value. It’s those who are willing and able to choose between one and the other that will command the market, imho.
And let’s not forget the many learned 488 owners who don’t click on or respond to the numerous predictable, tiresome and thinly-veiled hatebait threads
Serious ? Any conclusions on a poll without knowing the pool are useless. You know that but deny that because all you are wanting to do is start another hate thread.
All it shows me is that there are 56 either owners or dreamers of a 458 and 23 owners of a 488.
Get 1000 people who own a 458 and 1000 people of a 488 to take the poll . And I predict those who have a 458 ( because of the sound at 9,000 rpms ) will say they have the best. Little or no comment stating can they afford the 488 that why they cant upgrade.
Ive seen many well to do that have gone through all the models upgrading. Only with the Speciale have they kept them.
Tell me ttforced which Ferrari do you have ?
Indeed. And this is why debating which is better as if it were some kind of absolute and objective fact, is not only wrong, but impossible
I'm not wrong or less of an enthusiast, simply because I prefer the 488. Neither are you for preferring the 458.
Both cars are special, and both cars have an "x-factor".
As I have said several times before, the sound of the 458 is not my thing, so the car needs to appeal in other ways. I find that a 488 gives me more "fizz" due to the way it drives and feels. It has little to do with having the latest and greatest. I prefer the 355 to the 360, or the 550 to the 599 and 575. For me, the 488 moves me in a way the 458 does not. That's just how it is and it changes nothing about any of the cars.
As for the pole. It tells us very little. We can only guess as to how much of an enthusiast each voter is. Is a voter a car enthusiast, a Ferrari enthusiast, or perhaps a 458 enthusiast? Or is it an owner who's more into owning a nice car with a specific badge or sound, but not someone who's actually a "driving enthusiast"?
Too many unknowns here.
Let me go out on a limb here and stir the waters a bit. It seems to me that some, not all, but a lot of 458 owners are very preoccupied with talking the 488 down. Almost as if the 488 was some kind of threat or the like. Could part of the difference in votes here be because more 458 lovers feel the need to "defend" the 458 and bash on the 488 a bit, compared to 488 owners feeling the need to "defend" their preference and explain why they choose the 488? Chances are that is the case. Not making a statement here, just saying that I'm fairly sure I'm not entirely off on that notion. Reading through posts, it seems like there's an awful lot of energy being spent on badmouthing the 488, and when newcomers join and ask about a 488 purchase, inevitably someone will chime in and try to convince that person, the 458 a much better this or that. There's a lot less of that going on the other way as far as I can tell, and I find that a lot more telling than a pole. Makes me think 458 fanaticism more than enthusiasm. Why spend so much time talking bad about a car if one does not care.
Just some food for thought
TT has an extensive collection of cars but as I stated, it’s useless to argue with the 458 cult. The sound is better don’t you know....
355, 612, 456, ff, 360 CS, 458, f40, 512tr, 2 430 spiders, and couple others....
you just don't like the poll results because you own a 488. you can ignore this thread if you like, doesn't hurt my feelings. 488 productions is bigger than 458 so there will be more opportunities for buyers to vote and if there is real demand prices will stay more stable than what we have seen for 458, but id dont think we will see that. like the CS and scud prices, i'm confident 458 and 488 prices will cross as well. my track record over 17 years has been pretty good so ill continue on looking and interpreting the market as i always have.
i never asked anyone to justify or debate fwiw. i wanted to see if x people voted what wld the numbers show now that the 488 has been around for a few years.
No I don't. I could have bout a 458 EVEN though they cost twice more than what you pay for them. I just did not like it. Front bumper with Whiskas, the sharp angle on either side of the front bumper. Those ridiculous vents on the guard. No opening in the rear quarter . The side rear quarter glass with out a curve. The 3 centre mount exhaust. The key then start button. The 488 for me got rid of all those things and that's why I bought the 488. AND THE TORQUE .
Somehow , yes the biggest market is the USA but there are other places where the Ferrari is sold . Lower numbers granted but its all relative. Our dealer in my state has ZERO 488 GTB OR SPYDERS for sale. Cars like the 458 disappear from the for sale because people do keep them. Same will happen with the 488.
The next V8 is the SF90 and to us will be over a million. Ferrari will be pushing the V6 TT Portofino coupe as there entry for the slot which will be the same price as todays F8. The 488 will reach a point that it holds. There is just panic selling , those that have bought a PISTA and economy starting to set in.
You list of cars is truly remarkable , congratulations but could there also be a reason why you scorn the 488 because you didn't buy one ?
As I said you first have to establish the pool.
I dont scorn the 488. I found it too soft and too video game like. I feel the same way about the lusso so ive kept my ff. The massive numbers of cars ferrari is producing makes me cringe, but thats nothing against the cars themselves. for me ferrari went too far into video game territory with the latest cars. The 458 for me is right balance of taking a 355 and modernizing it. I also prefer 360 to the 430 and the 355 to the 360 fwiw. And for me sound is the second most important characteristic of a car after the looks. For me the butterflies in the belly come from a combination of sight and sound.
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No polls on Fchat are scientific polls. That does not mean they have no value at all.
Cognitive dissonance is a real thing. People tend to believe their purchases are right. They reinforce their decisions. The more money they spend the more likely they are to defend their purchase. Excluding those who have purchased a car would not be fair to those who “put their money where their mouth is.”
As l have said previously, the 488 should win hands down as it is more technologically advanced. Apparently many Fchatters believe other factors outweigh the technological advantage. Every person will weigh the attributes of a car differently.
The vast majority voted that they like the 458 better. So be it.
Agree with this
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458: Heavy input from Michael Schumacher, who test drove during development and was present at launch. Luca di Montezemolo at the healm through all development, and at launch. Beautifully sculpted Pininfarina design. Winning people/teams produce winning cars. Last NA mid-engine V8 Ferrari. An important piece of history that also just happens to be hilariously fun and entertaining to drive, as well as aesthetically pleasing. A true high water mark, never to be achieved again.
Anyone who has done real science already knows these sorts of polls aren’t real science, and aren’t intended to be. As such you don’t need to know the “pool” to make some conclusions.
This is very simple...and he didn’t lead it in any particular direction with his OP...just said, “curious.”
Each person who responded does so for their own reasons and isn’t required to write a post...just click which one he “prefers” for whatever personal reason. You don’t have to be an owner, you can be a dreamer and still prefer one over the other, in fact the dreamer may be more relevant since price isn’t a consideration, or resale, etc.
Clearly the 458 is preferred (it’s not like it is 52 vs 48) to the unknown pool of responders, perhaps half total are owners...others are enthusiasts on these boards.
Doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme, but it is interesting to see.
The result of this poll is a clear repudiation of the Ferrari mantra-" The best Ferrari will be the next one". Many here prefer the previous one. What can be gleaned from this phenomenon is that there exists a significant amount of super car enthusiasts who are less than pleased with the trend towards enhanced refinement, comfort and precision. Many view this evolution as the gateway for cars that are more clinical, sterile, lacking soul and emotional involvement. The schism that exists towards the latest exotics cannot be resolved with a debate or an argument as there is no right or wrong. This debate is not new nor is it endemic exclusively to Ferrari. Many Porsche traditionalists wax lyrical over the air cooled era while others extol the virtues of the latest and greatest. Ultimately, all that matters is that the car of choice satisfies its owner irrespective what others may prefer.
That is without question one of the best, most articulate, lucid, sensible, fair and balanced posts I’ve read here.
I believe life is a question of balance. What is yet to come isn’t always the best, or better than the present or the past. Also, what is in the past isn’t always great, nostalgic and magic just because it’s in the past.
Sometimes, you hit the exact, perfect balance between past and future. The sweetspot, the tipping point if you will. I believe with Ferrari and its V8 lineup, it happened twice: with the 355 and the 458, which is nearly in lead by a factor of 3 to 1.
Not that the 348, the Modena, the F430 or the 488 aren’t great cars and great Ferraris. But the discrepancy in desirability and value on the market clearly shows a widespread preference.
They may end up being what imho is “the rebound” syndrome, as in a relationship: what comes next after you had one of times of your life.
Just like religion ahah
I love my 458 spider and have never driven a 488. It was just love at first drive. I actually think lower HP cars can be more fun. My experience with the 911 targa with 400hp is you can floor the long petal longer than the 458. It is fun. Now my vote is 458 but it could change after driving a 488.
I have had all the iterations of both. 488 kicks the **** out of the 458. Sorry, the truth hurts. Unless you LIKE having a slower less developed car.
No need to be sorry - I disagree 100 percent and so do most others as the poll shows.
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A poll of 458 owners...
Wonder if it’s the same pollsters Hillary used