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458 or 488

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ttforcefed, Jul 18, 2019.

?

458 or 488

  1. 458

    164 vote(s)
    74.5%
  2. 488

    56 vote(s)
    25.5%
  1. Steinhart

    Steinhart Karting

    May 21, 2019
    179
    I have been a Porsche enthusiast for decades. Currently have a '17 TTS Cab that is an amazing car

    Decided to drive a 458 Spider and was immediately sold by the driving experience. I've never driven anything as awesome as this.

    Ended up buying one a few weeks later. Love the car!
     
  2. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior
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    Despite owning a 458 spider, never saw this video. Yes, loved her review.
    If I heard her correctly over the wonderful exhaust note, I think she quotes different horsepower and torque figures than I usually see. She quotes brake hp of nearly 550 vs Ferrari's literature saying 570 PS/562hp and 398 lb-ft. I thought she quoted 440 lb-ft.
    Doesn't change the review. Just saying I hung on every word.
    Best
     
  3. Steinhart

    Steinhart Karting

    May 21, 2019
    179
    yeah, I picked that up as well

    many car review videos have inaccurate "facts"

    there is 458 youtube video about "the 5 things I hate about the 458", one of them being there is no readable MPH display, referring to the small one on the left screen, however if the author spent just a little more time he would have discovered that the right screen has an option to a very large MPH display

    I've picked up many discrepancies and inaccuracies in videos and even magazine articles
     
  4. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
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    Surely, you could have picked a more representative “review” (“to keep things balanced”). May is garbage. That is not a review. Rather, a disinterested and distracted bloke mumbling on about his surroundings whilst driving a car he doesn’t understand and knows nothing about.
     
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  5. Randyslovis

    Randyslovis Formula Junior
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    As they say in Italian, "Lo so."
    One super minor point they made (what is now nearly 10 years ago!) was that there was no intermittent blinker function. Meaning that it only flashes a few times then automatically goes off. Why this matters I have no idea. Maybe important in Europe. Anyway, the car actually has this useless - to me - feature. I forget if you push the bottom of the blinker or have to hold it down for a few seconds to make the blinkers do this. I remember finding it by accident! I have used it so many times in my Italia and spider that I have already forgotten about its existence!
    Best
     
  6. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Fchatters voting in this poll now favor the 458 to the 488 3 to 1
     
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  7. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,102
    Surely someone will complain that it’s not statistically significant.
     
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  8. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    If the vote were 3 votes 1 l would say not significant.

    But the vote is 95 to 32. That is significant IMVHO.
     
  9. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    556
    #159 sampelligrino, Jul 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    beginning to see this point, maybe I am just new

    If the 458 was as amazing as it is (and I wholeheartedly agree it is a truly amazing car), not sure why so many 458 fans (not saying owners deliberately) are having to go out of their way to insinuate about how its better than another car, namely its replacement the 488 (or how the 488 is the lesser car)

    Perhaps title should be changed to 458 appreciation thread...

    I've never owned a car that made me talk down or even think lesser of another. Feels a bit insecure, but just a new owner's opinion, trying to discard the bias of the 488 I own because the only reason why I'm trying to think I'd remotely care is resale / market value. Hope everyone enjoys their cars. Reminds me of 991.1 NA Carrera vs 991.2 turbo Carrera endless debate. Much of it hype IMO after owning both generations back to back speaking to the Porsches. Owned a GT3, didn't think about TurboS. Own NA Carrera, loved and appreciated the turbo Carreras. Owned a turbo Carrera, and loved and appreciated the NA Carreras

    Significant sure, but in what meaningful way hard to extrapolate and could be subjective. but very easy to vote online versus vote with your wallet and put your money where your mouth is. If you are a 458 owner and chose it over the 488 that is significant to me. if you are a 488 owner and chose it over a 458 then that's significant to me (as far as the poll results go). I don't find it significant personally if people simply prefer one car over the other as a fan, would that impact anything for you? Only speaking for myself I buy cars for what I like, no one else, and I think I backed that up with my latest car

    Perception can be reality, especially if your reality is you are in neither car. Totally agree that the 458 will have more fans than the 488. I know people who insist on NA (sound/"last of" dying breed mentality) flat out over anything turbo or hybrid matter of factly, irrespective of car or stats or merits etc. I'm sure at least a few of that mindset could have voted here. Would that be of significance to me, not really

    just my 2 cents after seeing the 458 love fest - which is again truly an epic car. I do not discredit the 458 in any way, but scratch my head a bit at some of the posts
     
  10. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I am a 458 Spider owner. I could buy a 488. But you will have to pry the 458 steering wheel out of my cold hands when l die.
     
  11. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2017
    556
    now if 94 more people chimed in and said that (I would honestly expect 10-15), then the poll results would bear more significance to me. As I said I know people who just have their heads in the sand on NA or bust, hey more power to them but I ask them about the F40 etc and they go quiet. Not saying the 488 is the F40 in any way, but people seem to inevitably follow the hype train and want what they can't have (NA going dodo bird it looks like sadly). NA will always win votes over turbo, up to each and every individual to decide how significant that is to them

    Again - just speaking for myself, and also glad you found that keeper car. Feel the same way with my 911 and hopefully my 488
     
  12. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There is only one car l will consider as a replacement for my 458 Spider...a 458 Aperta. But they are $1 million +
     
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  13. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
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    Jun 12, 2005
    256
    SoCal
    Everyone is different. To some the 458 doesn't do it for them and others 488 don't do anything for them. Some feel speed and power is more important to them and other believe sounds is, nothing wrong it them its just preference.
    For me sound is very important, the sound is huge part of the experience, it enhances it and gives it more theater of driving an exotic. 355 was the first Ferrari I fell in love with as a kid and it was because of the sound then looks. Turbo cars don't have the sound I need. Im not saying the 458 is a better car, I do believe the 488 is a better as far as looks, speed, handling but still doesn't do it for me thats all, and its not like the tech is light years ahead like comparing 430 and 458.....just an updated tech of the old not new new tech. Light years ahead would be comparing the f8 to the sf90 tech.

    ....but Pista on the other hand...ill take for its beauty.
     
  14. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,102
    About $600k and falling.
    After owning a 458 spider, I don’t think the aperta is worth 3x.
     
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  15. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Also a terrible turbo car …. imo ...
     
  16. Ash Patel

    Ash Patel Formula Junior
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    Dec 12, 2015
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    Stockholm, Sweden
    a part of the reason of the poll result must also be that there are more 458 owners then 488 owners here and in general (sold cars)?
    Off course you are going to vote for the car you own no matter how well evolved, better looking, faster etc the replacement is :)
     
  17. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,433
    France
    My interpretation is that since Ferrari has positioned the Pista at a ludicrous price, it is not considered as a direct competitor for the 458 - and it's also so expensive that 458 worshippers would feel uncomfortable attacking it.
    The 488 is a nice target though, and I bet the F8 will follow the same path.
    By the way, to echo some comments above - I could have bought a 458, but elected to go for a 488 ;) - and next will be an F8, for the price of a low mileage Speciale...
     
  18. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Mar 18, 2014
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    Nuno
    I respect that you may feel that way and if so, although I feel James May’s review isn’t that bad, please feel free to post any other videos you deem more representative.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
  19. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    The way I see it, turbos back in the 70s and 80s were the latest technology to allow a car to be faster. The same goal as, lets say, direct injection or 4 valves per cylinder. That was the only concern back then: make it faster, fitting the motto of a company like Ferrari with the greatest racing heritage.

    Nowadays, you know turbos are used only to meet environmental regulations, reduce CO2 emissions and fuel consumption. It may make a car go faster, but instead of being the chief concern, it’s collateral and mandated by outside forces.

    I mean... Fiat makes a 0.9 engine, 2 cylinder turbo. Just because “turbo”, are we going to bring the F40 into the equation? And My Mondial also had side vents/scoops... So if turbo is enough for people to vaguely seem to get the 488 in the wake of the F40, then so does every turbo car in the world.

    And for the record, the car you can directly associate with the F40 is the 458: the triple pipe exhaust was specifically made to homage the car. No turbo, but its heritage.

    Again, my two cents.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  20. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
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    No need. I’ll just update my ignore list.
     
  21. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Not true Ash, if the Pista had a NA engine I would certainly have liked that car (better) ….

    Maybe one day some freak will take the turbo's off his Pista and see what can be reached … :eek:
     
  22. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Turbochargers are just more efficient, that's why they allow more performance using less petrol (and thereby reducing emissions).
    They are not an artificial solution (like electric engines that have not yet reached a development where they would be used without regulations pressure); turbochargers vs NA is very much the same as injection vs carburettors (injection was first introduced in the 60s to enhance performance, then its efficiency was used to reduce pollution - in an intermediate step, this was detrimental to performance like on the BB 512i or 308 GBi but eventually improved injection is just a better solution than carburettors, and so is turbocharging just a better solution than naturally aspirating).
    Of course for nostalgia and mechanical integrity one may prefer an engine with carburettors, but it's outdated and so are, to some extent, NA engines.
     
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  23. Texas2step

    Texas2step Karting
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    The question 458 or 488 is too vague that results of the poll is useless IMHO. The question was not which car is better. I bet there are some people who voted 458 and have never seen one in person or drive one. The 458 proponents are declaring a 3 to 1 victory that 458 is a “better “car than the 488 in a muddled election with muddled results


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
  24. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    Not sure that would qualify as a great idea, Mel.

    The 488 variants were designed to be turbocharged, and excel at that. Taking the turbos off would mess everything up, and you’d end up with a 3.9 NA inefficient engine once it was working how it was not design to work, nothing more.

    It’s like adding a turbo to a 458. May go faster, but it’s not the point. I believe no 458 owner misses a turbo or more speed in exchange for some of the magic gone, and I believe no 488 owner would ever relinquish his turbo in exchange for something else. I think we should appreciate both cars for what they are and what they try to accomplish, both in very different and opposite ways.

    This poll and, I believe, the market in time will show is this:

    1) The 488 is the best turbocharged car in the world.

    2) The majority of people who are able to afford exotic supersports cars (and ultimately they’re the ones who define supply, demand, desirability and price) prefer the 458 to the 488, for reasons that are obvious and cristal clear for 458 owners, and incomprehensible and/or irrelevant for 488 owners.

    I hope as newer, more modern, faster and “better” cars are released by Ferrari, people don’t start addressing the 488 like some address the 458: just because it’s not in production, it’s yesterday’s news. Used trash. If so, I’ll be more than happy in future to defend staunchely the 488. The best wine is vintage.

    I still feel it’s ludicrous for a person who prefers the 458, to automatically be branded as a 488 hater. The Modena isn’t as loved as the 355 and it will never will be, and yet it’s a magnificent Ferrari. Preferring the Modena is ok, but it won’t change the tide. It’s better to accept it and enjoy it for what it is, instead of making a case that the market simply isn’t supporting.

    In any case, we’re talking about Ferrari history, personal preference and the market for when these cars are all pre owned and 10/15+ years. The best thing we can do is enjoy them and take good care of them, mechanically and cosmetically.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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  25. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
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    #175 AlfistaPortoghese, Jul 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
    I don’t think the poll is either useless or cientific. It’s not designed to answer the most important question of the universe once and for all.

    It was simply designed and simply put to measure the very subjective personal preference, opinion and taste, and imvho that’s a good pointer for future appreciation of one car versus the other, once it’s the majority who defines desirability and price.

    I speculate that if you start a poll of the same nature called 355 or Modena, you’d get the sane results at the very least, and look at the price gap between one and the other on the market.

    In the end, the Modena will always have its fans always be a great Ferrari, but the market has spoken. That in turn won’t make Modena owners start to prefer the 355 nor selling their cars. But it is what it is. In my very humble opinion, same will happen in the 458 vs 488 case.

    Or is there anyone who believes when these cars will be 15/20+ years old and we’ll all be driving EV, the 488 will have more value on the market than a 458? (Honest question).

    Kind regards,

    Nuno.
     
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