458 or FF - help me decide | FerrariChat

458 or FF - help me decide

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by lencap, Oct 28, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    Greetings!

    I realize this is a bit of apples versus oranges, but both cars interest me. I'm a senior citizen, and this will be my last Ferrari, replacing a 360 spider three pedal car that I sold many years ago.

    I live in a moderate size city (population near 500K) and there is no easy way to enjoy any performance car given the realities of traffic, speed enforcement, etc. That's one of the reasons I sold my 360. We experience all four seasons, but winter is mild with little snow/ice. Now I'm at the age where having a Ferrari is more of an appreciation of what the car represents, and the enjoyment that brings, as opposed to experiencing maximum performance. I have three grandchildren, ages 3-11, and hope to keep whatever car I buy for them to enjoy with me in the years to come. Both my wife and I have typical senior issues - arthritis/aches & pains - but no serious medical issues to consider.

    The issue is which car will serve us best in the long run. My head says the FF is far more "practical", and the sound of a naturally aspirated 12 cylinder engine is a primary draw. I doubt such engines will be available for much longer. The FF is also a less popular model, and resale prices are remarkably reasonable given the performance and style of the car. My concern is long term repair expense - I've heard the horror stories of $20K transmission issues, etc. I'm not expecting perfection, but I would like your thoughts about the car, and your experience would also be very helpful.

    The 458 is a different car, but I've had the ability to enjoy driving my friend's car at length, finding it to be both a wonderful driving experience, as well as a visually attractive machine. Repairs are also an issue, but again it's hard to know what the future holds. My attraction here is the beauty of the car, as well as the last naturally aspirated Ferrari V8. Unlike with the FF I won't be able to drive all the boys with me, but to me a Ferrari has always been known as a two seat sports car. I may prefer the 4 seats of the FF, but in reality there will likely not be many opportunities for me to drive altogether very often.

    That brings me back to the practical advantages of the FF - likely more senior friendly seating, more comfort and creature comforts. Not having driven an FF I'm not sure what the driving experience will be like, but I would not want to feel as if I'm driving a GT, but unable to enjoy "ringing it out" from time to time.

    Your thoughts are invited and welcome. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,348
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I have three grandchildren, ages 3-11, and hope to keep whatever car I buy for them to enjoy with me in the years to come. Both my wife and I have typical senior issues - arthritis/aches & pains - but no serious medical issues to consider.

    Get the FF, case closed. :)
     
    uhn2000, otakki and IloveGT like this.
  3. LeoBRK

    LeoBRK Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2010
    452
    NYC
    Full Name:
    Leonardo
    FF 100%!!!
     
    uhn2000 likes this.
  4. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,865
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    I thought exactly the same as Paul. The FF you can enjoy with all 3 grandkids at the same time. That'll be priceless memories for them and you, now and into the future. Additionally, with arthritic hips and backs myself, I am guessing that getting into & out of an FF will be resist than a 458.

    T
     
    otakki likes this.
  5. gilly6993

    gilly6993 Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2009
    2,475
    Longmeadow, MA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I have a 5 and a 2 year old....sold my 458 for a Lusso....Don’t take this the wrong way but with 3 grandkids at those ages you would be a _________ (insert negative adjective) to go with the 458.....the look and thrill of the kids will be worth every penny and more.....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    otakki and IloveGT like this.
  6. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    The dct is the same in both; covered by warranty. I love my FF...shrinks as u drive it... but the 458 is special!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. rockminster

    rockminster Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 20, 2003
    874
    Lake Tahoe
    The opportunity to include all your grandkids makes this a super easy decision - go with the FF. Probably the smart choice for you absent the grandkids given the way it sounds like you’ll use the car. The interior of the FF is such a special place to be, more so than the 458. You’ve scratched your v8 Ferrari sports car itch with the 360, time for a V12! Plus, FF’s are incredible values, IMO.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    otakki and Natkingcolebasket69 like this.
  8. mjmccoymd

    mjmccoymd Rookie

    Aug 29, 2005
    24
    Lawrenceville, GA (USA) & Montegridolfo, Italy
    Full Name:
    Michael McCoy
    12 > 8.

    4 > 2

    Enough said...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
    BANNED

    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    Sometimes powerful argument comes in the form of simplest presentation. This is a prime example.
     
    Il Co-Pilota likes this.
  10. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    Thanks for the replies - I too am leaning to the FF, but I'd like to know if it's fun to drive. I don't expect it to be as nimble as a 458, but I'd like to enjoy the feeling. I drove my friend's Aston with an "automatic" transmission, and it was terrible. Bucking all the time, hard to modulate the throttle, etc. Another disappointing car to drive was a Bentley GT. Looks great, but not very engaging to drive. Finally, a ride in a Jaguar 12 cylinder GT car also disappointed, but that was an older car, and to be fair, it had seen better days.

    How enjoyable is the driving experience of the FF? Is it the type of car that you get in a drive just to enjoy, and come home with a smile on your face? Or is it "OK", but not special? When I drove my friend's 458 it always felt special. (By the way, we took it to a timed 1.5 mile runway at Mojave, and I hit 182.6 at the end of the timed 1.5 mile without any problem at all. The owner was almost 4 MPH faster - GREAT FUN). I don't expect the FF to be the same experience, but I do want it to feel special.
     
  11. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    523
    Get the FF, then when (if ever) the need for the 458 thrill, we'll just ask your friend for a swap of cars for a week or something. I see no point in getting a 458 in your case. Do note that I have a 2016 FF...
     
  12. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    523
    Your question if the FF is enjoyable? Oh yes, and nothing beets that V12 sound, it is pure music and no V8 comes close. Just starting my FF gives me big smiles evert single time. JWW uses the words "smiles per miles", and the FF in my experience is all about that. Handling is great, yes it is a bit more heavy than the 458, but since you don't seem to track your cars every weekend, that will never be an issue.
     
  13. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2015
    1,126
    The Netherlands
    Soooo.... you’ve come onto one of the V12 sections of the forum asking for V12 vs V8 advice. I know which way that’s going to go ;)

    but on a more serious note, I suspect that many FF owners also have a V8 lurking in their garage too so the advice you get will be objective. Which is; get the FF. For all the reasons posted above.

    You’ve asked if the FF feels special and can be pushed hard. Yes on both counts and this is what makes both the F12 and FF so special. They are superlative GT cars, capable of crushing continents in comfort but when you want to, you can turn the dial up to 11 and unleash the beasts within. Sure, they won’t be as nimble round a track as a mid engine V8 but that’s not why you’re buying this car is it?
     
    otakki likes this.
  14. DavidRS4

    DavidRS4 Karting

    Oct 12, 2019
    124
    I think the FF is the car for you based on everything you shared. One other big issue is that it is not as safe for the younger kids to sit in the passenger seat of the 458 until they are older. With the FF you can put them in the back safely in a carseat or a booster.

    Repair expense - you can purchase a FF with a warranty from Ferrari to cover the biggest powertrain issues.

    You can drive the FF year round without any problem, sun, rain or snow. It really is a fun car. Of course I may be biased, having just purchased one last week :)
     
    otakki and ANOpax like this.
  15. andyrichter

    andyrichter Karting

    Jul 18, 2017
    186
    Oahu
    I vote FF. I’m in a similar situation and agree the 458 is more of a proper sports car, but that doesn’t matter if you seldom use it. I am in the process of buying cars that my young children can ride in, and the FF is on the top of that list. I seldom drive my 2 seaters, and they have become garage queens. Good luck being the cool grandpa!
     
  16. baguns

    baguns Karting

    Sep 19, 2012
    246
    Yorba Linda, CA
    I’ve got a 430 scud and FF. In the past 6 months, I’ve driven the scud maybe 4 times (just to start the engine and go around the block, sadly).

    The ff will no way be as engaging to drive as a 458, but it’s damn close. Every time you get on that throttle and hear the v12, you won’t be disappointed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    otakki and andyrichter like this.
  17. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Use the search function; I asked the same stuff a year or less ago before I got mine ;)
    FF is special to drive trust me,


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    otakki, ANOpax and andyrichter like this.
  18. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,935
    Contrarian POV for you....given age and health as described, get the 458 now and enjoy it. Your write up is begging for permission for wanting the less practical 458.
    Do it while you can. Depreciation from here is low. 458’s are incredibly hassle free. I owned 3 of them, and am constantly thinking of getting another.

    Do it while you can enjoy it. The Lusso will depreciate quickly to $160kish in a few years and you can swap out easily.

    Wish you the best.
     
  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    ive had an FF since 2012 and ive had 2 458s since then. the FF is the answer to your dilemma. unequivocally. below the speed limit the FF is a joy to drive and live with. the 458 is much more fun at crazy speeds and closed roads getting out of a 458 is chore compared to the FF and for whatever reason messing up an FF never feels as bad as messing up the 458.
     
  20. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    #20 lencap, Oct 29, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
    I again thank the forum membership for sharing different perspectives and information. I am looking at this 2014 FF - offered by a Ferrari Dealer in NC: https://www.foreigncarscharlotte.com/used-Charlotte-2014-Ferrari-FF-2DR+HB-ZFF73SKA0E0200022

    It has had 4 prior owners, two for less than a year. I've some concern about the quick ownership flippers, but that's not uncommon. My main concern is total ownership cost - depreciation/maintenance/repairs. The first two I expect, but the third is my concern. Been reading about transmission problems as the main culprit - with correspondingly expensive fixes.

    Prices seem to vary quite a bit, low 100s for higher miles early model year cars sold through independent/private sellers, to upper 100s for later model lower mileage cars. I'm ambivalent to the miles, within reason. There doesn't seem to be a lot of difference among the model years, with later year cars offering the "moonroof" option and making some features standard. If there is a reason to favor a particular model year, I welcome your thoughts.

    I also appreciate Dustman's comments - my aging body likely has a few years where 458 ownership is possible, and that may work as well. It was pretty wonderful being behind the wheel of my friend's 458 as it crossed above 180MPH on a closed airport runway in the Mojave desert shortly after sunrise! The picture our timed runs on a 1.5 mile closed course from a standing start. The 227MPH(!!) time is with me as passenger in my friend's modified Ford GT. That was a two underwear change ride! My time is the 182+ behind the wheel of his 458 - slower times were my prior runs. (It's nice to have rich friends!).

    Much thanks for each of you for taking the time to comment - very helpful.
     

    Attached Files:

    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  21. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    fyi in june a 2014 with 14,553 miles traded at riverside manheim (wholesale) auction for 120K. the car you posted is really pretty. 4 owners isn't much to worry about and you can always get the warranty from ferrari for 6k a year. i bet you can get the care for 130K.

    no one us paying more than 140 to 150K for any FF in this market. it will be the best money uve spent.

    almost no difference across model years aside from pano roof and carplay. Pano roof is a push.
     
  22. ANOpax

    ANOpax Formula 3

    Jul 1, 2015
    1,126
    The Netherlands
    It was the same for me as a passenger while my wife held the throttle of the FF wide open at 150mph on the autobahn. We had to stop there as we were coming up on traffic but the FF was still pulling like a train.
     
  23. cam612

    cam612 Karting

    Jul 22, 2014
    79
    UK
    I faced the same dilemma. I had a 612 (so explaining my username) which was an amazing car, but I wanted a change. It was between three - a 599, 458 or an FF. I started out being prepared to go for only 2 seats and was imagining that I'd settle on the 599. However, after test driving 3 cars, including an HGTE, it really didn't do it for me.

    The 458 was fantastic. It's continually pulling at the leash. Feels quite go-kart like. Would be brilliant on a track or on the twisties.

    But.....I eventually went for an FF. Think about it - an NA V12 (F140 - arguably the greatest V12 architecture ever), carbon brakes, DCT, trick 4-wheel drive, +200mph, 660hp, plus it's got 4 seats, a hatchback and the seats go down. It represents near the zenith of internal combustion engine car design. It does everything. Of course, it is a lot bigger than a 458 and ultimately it's a GT, not a sports car.

    I'm in the UK and love taking my cars to the continent - Le Mans, autobahn outings etc. I even took the 612 to France to go skiing, 4-up. I took the FF to the Spa 24 hours this year and it was brilliant.

    Having the 4 seats does make the car that more usable and therefore more enjoyable.

    My only big issue was the lack of noise. So I replaced the exhaust with a Novitec stage 2. Now tunnels are much more enjoyable. My other recommendation is to try and get one with the panoramic roof. Makes being at the back quite special.
     
  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
    18,772
    well done on the novi - incredible.
     
  25. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula 3
    BANNED

    Oct 17, 2015
    2,419
    You need the pano roof. Your grandchildren and passenger will love it.
     

Share This Page