458 Speciale Manual Conversion

Was heavily discussed in January. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/manual-converted-458-speciale.671855/#post-148955849

 

Would be fun but dangerous. All that loading and unloading on high hp cars can be sketchy as hell.

 

No need to apologize. If I tried to speak in a foreign language I would butcher it.

 

CS I would absolutely convert. I love the CS dearly, but with a manual it becomes an all time great car in my opinion, even more so.

Scuderia...I love that gearbox. Manual or Flappy paddle either way I'd love it.

Speciale...until seeing this video (I saw the others before) I just thought it was a cool project but wouldn't even entertain the idea. Sam explained it really well though in his video and I could genuinely see a case for it, to be honest. And I didn't have that feeling with the other videos...

Pista. Absolutely agree. No way I'd get that converted to manual. No thank you.

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I'm a pretty die hard ''manual guy'', but can see the case for a flappy paddle in certain situations or even prefer it. Until this video I thought the Speciale was in the ''don't even think about it'' camp.

 

Makes no sense to me at all. The way the Speciale revs you want the DCT and for me the gearbox is part of the driving experience and its not as if the DCT is a slow gearbox at all. On the F1 gearbox cars there is a member of this forum who is able to perform magic on those cars, I experienced a 360 F1 with his updates and it was night and day so for me even converting one of those...I would leave it as it arrived from the factory from that perspective.

 

This was not a conversion, it was a transmission swap and a dumb one to be honest. You can't convert the 458 transmission to a manual. You can however swap the transmissions out. Manual transmissions just don't make sense to me after 500hp. Its a serious deterioration of the performance of the car at higher horsepowers. Frankly, I don't care what people think, you've compromised the potential of the car in terms of measurable performance. I say this as someone that converted their F430 to a manual. I would never compromise my 458's performance with a manual. The F430 was pushing the boundaries of performance deterioration.

 

Interesting prospect. For me, 360 CS M without a shadow of doubt.

But saying that, I would most likely simply got the @360trev route instead and start with a normal 360, convert to manual and have a mixture of CS and 430 Challenge parts on it to create what I believe is the ultimate mid engine V8 Ferrari.

If you don't know the car, here's a video of the same youtuber and the man Trev himself going over the car and having a rather good sounding drive.
He Took 10 YEARS To Build World's FASTEST Ferrari 360 - YouTube

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For me this is as ridiculous as converting a 992 GT3 RS to air-cooled (maybe some people wanting to waste money will try that, I don't know).

 

Well technically I would start with a Modena rather than CS purely because of how many parts would be swapped out that you might as well just start wit the cheaper base and leave the CS as it is. Otherwise back to the original question, if I had a CS already I'd just manual swap it .

I do see the point of purists on not wanting to change the original, but in many cases the modification is reversible anyways (not really in this Speciale), so with irreversible modifications I do see it from their stand point more as well.

And I agree with you there, the situation of many people is so different. 15 cars, you can do with 1 being away for a long time being worked on, things changed, things needing testing etc so that all plays a part too. As for not being able to service the car at your dealer...I think in certain cases like this often it's just better to have a trusted mechanic do the work, since resale is out of the question anyways.

 

For certain cars, like the 360/430, a manual conversion is not going to hurt the value. I had an F1 F430 Spider that I had converted to manual. I bought it for $119k. After it was converted, it was last sold for $184k. However, in the case of a 458 Italia or Speciale, you cannot do a manual conversion because the gearbox is not designed for it. This specialie had a previous generation, likely an F430 gearbox that was used to make it a manual. It's just plain dumb to take a low production car and put older technology in it. Some people have more money than brains.

 

Agree with the 1st part but not the 2nd...it depends entirely on the persons' situation and wants/needs. If the value is not important to him and he really just wants a manual Speciale, all the power to him. Plenty of original Speciale's around...2nd, what might be astronomical sum of money to some, other spend that on a long haul private flight...

 

Fair point on costs, situation, tastes etc. Also, the gearbox may have come out of a challenge car. I don't know where it came from, but its not stock.

 

If I could speak your native language 5% as well as you speak English, I would be very pleased with myself.

 

I would honestly just stick to the cars that Ferrari has given us. This conversion game is really starting to annoy me, as it is diluting the flair of the factory manual cars few of us own and the brand itself. Let's not even begin to mention the fraud aspect... Many will take advantage of this eventually.

To me it just has this DIY, backyard wrenching notion to it, which I don't like - I can't stand this "OmG BrO iS iT GaTeD?!" thing, which has been going on ever since internet "personalities" have made it a fad on both Lamborghinis and Ferraris.

Sam, as well as many others btw, have clearly hinted at the fact that the car is flawed in terms of power delivery, ergonomics of the pedal box and especially in terms throttle response. I can only imagine it being worth it when the car actually works perfectly, which most simply do not. Marketing has its advantages and disadvantages I guess.

 

Having said my above statement a video just popped up of a Speciale going up and down the gears and now I'm convinced of the flappy paddle again

I do stand by my point that a CS would be better as a manual though. Manual CS and flappy paddle Speciale. Best of both worlds if you ask me.

 

I think your points were fair. In reality, like you wrote, for some people, the cost of the car plus the modification is small change. I have clients that a 250 GTO would be relatively small change for them.

I agree, the CS would be better as a manual. There isn't enough power in that car to make it "dumb" from a power delivery in my opinion, this is regardless of actual resell value which as you rightly point out, is an entirely different point. Resell I believe on a CS would crater with a conversion because of the rarity of the car.

On the speciale, my large order bit is does it improve the driving experience? Driver engagement I would say yes and no. Yes, you get the feeling that your actions are more connected to what the car does, no in terms of power delivery. Also, one thing not discussed is the e-diff. Many converted cars no longer have an operable e-diff after conversion/swap. On a car like the Speciale, I would consider a disabled e-diff to be a serious degradation of the performance of the car. Others may disagree. I asked Modificata directly if the e-diff was working and they didn't answer that question. In the F430 conversion, the TCU is removed. Are they using AFT or Brake Fluid for lubrication on the clutch? All the secrecy from Modificata raises red flags for me. Maybe the answers are out there now, but when this first broke and I asked them, they wouldn't answer. It's not as though I'm a competitor or even that there would be much of a market at all for a Speciale swap for them to be concerned about even if I were a competitor.

 

I have no problem with 430/360 conversions. The transmissions are already made for it and in terms of diluting OEM manuals, I strongly disagree. OEM manuals have suffered NO value loss at all from conversions.

I do feel the same as you though with the "OmG BrO iS iT GaTeD?!" thing, which has been going on ever since internet "personalities" have made it a fad on both Lamborghinis and Ferraris." 100% agree with this.

But......the F1 in the 360 and 430 isn't near as good as a dual clutch and after my F1 left me stranded, and knowing the routine maintenance on these transmissions, I made the decision to convert an F430. Other than cable adjustments every once in a blue moon, the manual transmission is pretty much maintenance free and lowers the cost of ownership, if not by money, it definitely lowers it by downtime.

 

I have not watched the video so just commenting on what I see. This isnt what I would do. I respect the freedom of someone to mod the car they buy and make it their own but that stick doesnt even look right they way it sits there blocking the climate control. Also, just thinking about comparing my 458 to my GT350 (a 6 speed MT), it's not just the slower shifting that you get; you also lose a gear with this conversion going from 7 to 6. I would imagine that the acceleration number (before/after conversion) would be significantly different all things considered. Does this interfere at all with the stability control or braking when downshifting during threshold braking?

At least you dont have to switch it to manual mode when you start it up and the owner no longer has to worry about the DCT sensor issues! Is this transmission more durable for track use? It seems that the challenge cars go through transmissions fairly frequently.

 

Excellent point about losing a gear!