I'm just curious how many consider the 458 Speciale a "Super car"??
I think the 458 Speciale and the 458 SpecialeA are wonderful, beautiful cars; but I do not consider them "super" cars. I think the term "super car" has been thrown around quite a bit in the last five-10 years. To me, a super car is something that's vastly superior to the other cars of its time and from its manufacturer. So, for example, the Speciale could most definitely be a super car when compared to, say, the latest "sporty" Acura coupe or a Subaru WRX. But compared to other Ferraris, the Speciale is not a super car - compared to the LaFerrari, the Speciale should be humble and happy just to be in the comparison. Compared to other Chevrolets, the latest iteration of the Corvette is most definitely a super car; Nissan's GT-R is most definitely a super car compared to the 370 Z and, I think, just about anything else in the GT-R price range. To me, today's super cars are the LaFerrari, McLaren's P1, Pagani's Huayra, Porsche's 918, and whatever Koenigsegg is offering and/or has offered in the last decade. The Enzo was the super car of its day, same with the Carrera GT; the F50, the F40, the GTO, the Countach, the 959, etc. At the end of the day though, I think this is all subjective as it's just my opinion. I would take a Speciale over a P1 or a 918 in a heartbeat.
Depends on the definition of the word "supercar" What makes a car a "supercar"? 0-60 in 3s or less? 0-120 in under 10s? Topspeed above 200 mph? For me my Speciale is definitely a supercar as it belongs to the fastest cars on the planet...
No, the Speciale is not a 'supercar'. Over the last 10 to 15 years the terms have become misused and confused by lazy and/or uninformed journalists. The Speciale is a special edition of a junior supercar. The definitions are as follows... Junior supercar (the base model) 355, 360, 430, 458, 488 etc MP4-12C Jalpa, Gallardo, Huracán etc The 911 is an odd egg but probably fits in here Supercar (the flagship, rare, properly exotic, unlikely to be usable as a DD, usually a bigger engine than the base model) Countach, Diablo, Murciélago, Aventador etc 512BB, Testarossa, 550, F12 etc Hypercar (very limited, sits outside of what would be considered normal production, absolutely no compromise, the definition of 'exotic', the pinnacle of performance, you might have to be on the 'list') F40, Enzo, LaF etc Veyron P1 Zonda, Huayra Anything by Koenigsegg (although their lack of class might disqualify them) The above is not a definitive list, just examples. It's about a whole lot of things and not just performance figures. If it were just about performance there would be a lot of home built tuner crap that would have to be called supercars and some even hypercars. For the same reason the Nissan-GT does't appear on the list. It has the numbers, but nothing else.
I would consider the Speciale & Speciale Aperta a supercar. Being that it is not the base model. The base model at this time is a California / California T. Also it is a limited production version of the 458 with limited availability over the regular model. Now I think that the P1, 918 & La Ferrari are in a new category of being a Hypercar. If you look at the performance of the Speciale & Speciale A it is above and beyond all Ferraris except the La Ferrari. Also the price point of $350k and up I think qualifies it for the "supercar" status. Also being that these two models of the 458 are not easily available and most going to the dealers best customers. I was able to get a Speciale A which my dealer is only receiving 3 cars. Every ten years or so I think the benchmark gets raised. What is supercar & hypercar today will be different in the future.
performance is a moving target ...look at the track times of an Enzo vs some current regular production cars even non Ferrari . just like the long used and understood term " skyscrapers " no longer means what it used to and has been superceded by " supertalls " for those over 1000 ft and eventually " hypertalls " for those over 3000 ft, the term " hypercar " should now be used for the models that would make , say, both a 458 Speciale A owner as well as a 991 GT3RS owner stare with bug eyes at the gas pump ....like a LaFerrari or 918 Spyder . Its like the old saying about porn in legal circles ...hard to define, but you know it when you see it ! otoh, to the great masses, the best and most inclusive term should just be " exoticar " " supercar " is neither here or there in this day, imo
I'm confused by your comment about Speciale or RS owners staring at the gas pumps, similar to LaFerrari or 918 owners? Can you expound?
I would consider the speciale a supercar. Am I going to break it down and make a huge post about why, no, but if a speciale cant be considered a supercar, than only very select few in this world are driving a supercar if it is going to go by flagships only
Drive it and you will KNOW its a super car. To try to say the Aventador (which is vastly inferior from a drivers perspective) is somehow a "super car" because its the "flagship" model (whatever that means) and the Speciale isn't is silly. BTW the LaFerrari is a "hyper car". As is the F40, F50 and Enzo. Funny thing is the Speciale beats every single one of them around the track (exception is laFerrari which it TIES).
I've driven most things and the most super car I have driven, compromise road and track is a speciale. It is very super to me, everything else feels a bit lame and under developed by comparison. Of course not driven a laf or 918 yet obviously a,
Speciale ties LaF around Fiorano? I find that hard to believe that Ferrari is going to let some junior car equal to its flagship - gonna do some research/reading after work. (now back to work)
If it's only about rarity then all kinds of cars would qualify as supercars. A supercar combines relative rarity with world class performance.
did a quick search.... seems like LaF is a lot faster than Speciale around Fiorano Fiorano lap records - FastestLaps.com Fiorano?s fastest | TopCar Fiorano Circuit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia you have another source?
and I think 99.8% of average populace would say Mondial is a supercar. Doesn't make it true or false. Just an opinion.
IMO.. The term Supercar, Hypercar and Exotic car are so bias to classified, really depend who make the judgment, some people classified 458 as Supercar and some just classify 458 just a another F-sport car. Therefore, there is no such category, just a term that some people call their favorite car.
Yes it is. It's about extravagant performance, mixed with extravagant layout, and styling, and heritage. Any 458 is clearly a supercar. The term was originally coined for the Miura based on its extravagance in ALL areas - size, performance, appearance, layout, interior etc. It was no 'mere' sports car, it was a 'super' car, over-indulgence everywhere. The same clearly applies to the 458, the Huracan, the 650 etc. They are undeniably exotic and beyond the reach of all but the wealthy and committed few. They are unnecessarily exotic purely for the sake of it - not merely functional but wanton excess. After all, you can spend a lot less to buy a car that cost a lot less to make but yet goes faster than a 458 - therefore the 458 is a product of excess and extravagance. Even buying older versions, which are theoretically more attainable, you are buying a car that has an unnecessary level of complication and therefore cost given the performance level - insurance and maintenance etc. Old supercars are still supercars. And what about when a car has performance and extravagance beyond that again? Well, that would be a 'Hypercar' of course! So what defines a sports car as opposed to a supercar? Well, even if the demarcation lines can be clearly established, there are cars that can blur the boundaries. In my view, a sports car is a car that has been designed for the purpose of going fast, rewarding the driver while doing so, without introducing unnecessary excess. The Porsche 911 is exhibit 'A'. There is a practical element that belonged to the 911 design from the very beginning. That is not to say supercars are not practical but the aim of introducing practicality into their design is not to make life easier (as with a sports car) but simply more bearable. A McLaren has a unique suspension system that makes life more bearable but those doors are simply extravagant and unnecessary (and a right pain in a crowded car park). Back to the 911 though. Its original design came from the desire to make a grown up 356 that more people could fit in. So, obviously, you move the engine backwards and increase its size to add power, which overcomes additional weight. And so the rear mounted flat 6 format entered the world instead of the 356's mid mounted flat 4. All very logical. The exterior design was quite rumpy because there was a big old engine back there, no attempt to disguise the fact was needed - this was a sports car not an exotic car remember. It looks the way it does, still today, because of logical reasons. The interior was sporty in a conventional way (otherwise its purpose of going fast, effectively gets undermined - no need for fripperies). A true, proper and brilliant sports car. How about an R8? This is the one that seems to confuse everybody. A sports car in my view, except that if the V10 spider existed on its own that might be extravagant enough to be considered a supercar - you don't need a V10 engine in a car that size/weight and spiders, well, the name even sounds exotic! Mainly though, the R8 is quite a conventional car. It is mid engined but then the rear engined Porsche has a probably even less convential layout being rear engined. No, it is a small, functional, effective driving tool. Great at the business of going fast....everyday. It feels probably a bit more exotic than the 911 but perhaps the Audi badge somehow counteracts that. Not a clear cut decision but I think most would agree, it is a fairly attainable, usable and brilliant sports car. So, other odd ones. How about a GT3RS? It is a 911, which as we know is a sports car, but it meets so many of my 'supercar' criteria - unnecessarily extravagant styling etc. Or does it? The huge great wing on the back certainly looks extravagant on the road, but it's pretty useful on the track and, at the end of the day, that is its design intent. Yet another example of Porsche executing to a brief, without unnecessary and exotic excess. A sports car. Or probably a super-sports car truth be told (ok, this is getting confusing now...!) How about Aston Martin? A difficult one. The DB9 is a sports car, a very posh, plush, large and, ahem, 'super' one. But probably still a sports car. How about a DBS? Yes, I still think a sports car but when I owned one, it felt pretty 'super' to me and if you had asked me then I would have told you it was a supercar without doubt. The one-77 a clear hypercar though. If a £250k/$350k car is relatively unattainable, a £1m one certainly is a step on again from that - nearly completely unattainable save for the very limited few. Plus its design, materials, performance (of the day) and rarity ensure its clear hypercar status in my mind at least. Gallardo? Supercar. 12C? Supercar. 308? Supercar. (just about) Dino? Sports car. Ahh, why is that then? Mainly because even though it was possibly the most beautiful car Ferrari ever built, its form followed the function of 'going fast enjoyably and effectively' (see my definition of a sports car above). Its size was quite small - you don't need any more for two people - meaning it only neded a V6 to propel it at an acceptably fast pace. It's handling was tidy and reflective of its light weight and its interior was very pleasant but quite spartan. It didn't need wide wheels because the weight of the V6 in the back was low and the level of performance it delivered was not high. By the time 308 arrived, the engine was an (unnecessary but very welcome) V8, its weight had increased, its handling duly impacted - not to say necessarily worse but more weight is undoubtedly a demerit even if counteracted by advancements in thinking made by the engineers. The addition of the V8 put Ferrari on a path that has led to the 488 of today. A V8 engine in the back of a car as small as a 308 is unnecessarily exotic and marks it out as a supercar to me. After all is said and done, the real definition? Back to my Aston DBS. If you had asked me when I owned it, it was a supercar to me no question. Perhaps that is all you need to know.
