458 - 458 vs 458 speciale | Page 4 | FerrariChat

458 458 vs 458 speciale

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by darkbard, Sep 5, 2021.

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  1. darkbard

    darkbard Rookie

    Jul 21, 2021
    48
    I drove a 600LT Spider a few weeks ago. It was extremely good, a go kart. I’d consider it decently stiff too. If it wasn’t for the unreliability of McLarens’, I’d buy it.


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  2. darkbard

    darkbard Rookie

    Jul 21, 2021
    48
    As for insurance, it is not worth it until it is, I guess. But yeah, statistically speaking it is not, I understand your point of view. Maybe, over time as I will get to know these cars better, I’ll relax a bit and save a few bucks from extra warranty :)


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  3. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Mclaren, due to the CF tub, has overcome the compromise of chassis rigidity and cowl shake inherent to many other brands' open tops.
     
  4. darkbard

    darkbard Rookie

    Jul 21, 2021
    48
    This explains my experience with the 600LT Spider. I drove the 488 Spider that FA has, but I can’t cope with Turbocharged engines atm.


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  5. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Interesting, I do now feel cowl shake in the Speciale Aperta


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  6. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Yes, I was enamored by the Perf achieving the record at the Nurburgring and was one of the first to receive delivery in the U.S. Great car as I’m sure the SVJ is, but the feel and panache was not for me. Traded for Speciale.


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  7. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Agree I have 2


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  8. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,935
    The drama is incredible. Driving it, not so much. But love that it exists in this turbo-boring world as a nutter choice.
     
  9. Akajak1

    Akajak1 Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    82
    UK
    I think there will always be healthy debate about the merits of NA vs Turbo.
    In the majority of measurable factors the Turbo engined V8’s eclipse the NA models.
    I just wanted a NA car based on more subjective values.



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  10. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    This is a comparison to the 488 GTB. The Pista would be substantially quicker than the SVJ.


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  11. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula 3

    Jan 19, 2021
    2,429
    East Coast
    I bought the extended warranty solely to protect against tranny failure


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  12. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    I was responding to Il Co Pilot who stated that the Performante was disappointing on the track.
     
  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    For me it was. And I don't for one second believe that ring time is legit, and unlike Lamborghini, Ferrari has never made an official attempt on the ring. When you consider the fact that until the 765 and SF90 arrived, the records set on the GP tracks were set by either the Pista or GT2RS, it seems even more odd that the Perf. should be that much faster. Heck, just look at the difference between the SVJ and Pista on Hockenheim. The Pista absolutely creams the SVJ.
    When Pobst drove the regular 488GTB on Seca, it was only 1.6 seconds slower than the Perf. and the Pista is much, much faster than the GTB. Both were driven by Pobst.

    I've chased a Pista on Knutstorp Raceway in a Perf. and there's no way in hell that car in stock trim run faster than a Pista anywhere. It was barely able to hang on in Sweden, and it did not change with a change of drivers.

    That Perf. ring lap has been questioned so much by experts and is so shady.

    Show me one example of a lap time where both the Pista and Perf. were driven by the same pro driver, or at least same-level pro drivers, where the Perf. was faster.

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  14. czlandi

    czlandi Karting

    Jun 20, 2019
    77
    United Kingdom
    Full Name:
    Christopher
    if you’re really looking for a car for only 3 years take the 458 Italia. The Spéciale is a limited edition car but imho no fun long distance and the sound is not as good as the standard 458. Having owned an Italia and now a Spider, I highly recommend the Spider. I’ve had 458s, a 488 and an 812. The only one I’ve kept is the 458 Spider. It’s such an emotional car. Image Unavailable, Please Login
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  15. willcrook

    willcrook Formula 3

    Feb 3, 2009
    2,129
    UK
    I agree that the perfs ring lap is bs
     
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  16. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
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    Look at the lap times I posted between the 488 and the Performante. Performante wins on every track. Hardly disappointing as a track car. When you question the record at the Ring, nothing you claim to undermine that time posted, as an excuse, has been verified. Claiming that the alignment was not the same as a stock car, is common for all brands when tested on a track. Ferrari routinely optimizes all their models when they are subject to a magazine review or being tested on a track. Your constant fanboy Ferrari rhetoric only minimizes your credibility.
     
  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    I did look at that, and what relevance does that have? I was talking about the Pista the entire time which was very clear.
    Of course the Perf is faster than a regular 488, that's not so odd. Go back and read what I wrote initially regarding the Perf. vs. Pista vs. SVJ, It had nothing to do with the 488 GTB. You cannot compare the Perf and 488 GTB. Compare the regular Huracan and 488 GTB if you like, and then the Lambo comes up short again.

    Back to the Pista, Perf. and SVJ.

    Of course Ferrari dials in the car before handing it owner, and so does Lambo and McLaren. So by that account there's nothing wrong about comparing the SVJ and Pista Hockenheim times.
     
  18. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
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    The Pista was introduced after the Performante. It is to be assumed that the Pista with an additional 80HP and similar mass, will be quicker around smaller tracks. That still does not render the Performante as disappointing when being tracked. The ring time still stands- 6:52:01 while the Pista time recorded was 7:00:03. The Pista was bested by GT2/RS, AMG GT BS, SVJ, GT3RS, SV. Sounds like the Pista might be classified as disappointing.
     
  19. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    speciale.
     
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  20. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    864
    San Diego, CA
    don't trade it, an 812 GTS and speciale in the stable is a great combo.
     
  21. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
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    My man……..that’s why we need more than one exotic.
     
  22. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Not disbelieving you, but where in the Ferrari literature is there evidence of any changes specifically to address stiffness?
     
  23. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    You are getting a few signals crossed.

    The G3RS which bested the Pista, was a Manthey car. What kind of speeds do you think a Pista will run if you give Manthey free reign? The regular 991.2 is slower than the Pista. The only two "regular" cars that has proven to be consistently on par or faster than the Pista on GP tracks, have been the GT2RS and AMG Black. The 992 GT3 is another faster car, but has yet to run the GP circuits.

    I say again, Ferrari has not run the Nordschleife, but Porsche and Lambo have. Don't you think if Ferrari brought a Pista and AF Corse along for a few days that they could make it perform better? Again, nobody around the Ring consider the Lambo times of any real value. Hell, the STO time is not even out and yet the pros around the track are already sharing video and photos about the car because they think it looks different from a regular STO.

    If you want to compare A/B look at the Sport Auto test for example. The Pista is only 1.8 second behind the GT2RS, both driven by Gehardt. Just to illustrate it further, look at the Pista on Magney Cours. It is 2.6 seconds per lap faster than a Perf. Ring times and Fiorano times have one thing in common. They are both pretty useless. Only way to know how cars actually run, is to pit them against each other. You cannot do this id one is a factory test and one is a magazine test. The Pista and Gebhardt GT2RS as well as the Hockenheim tests between the SVJ, GT2RS and Pista illustrate this perfectly. It's not a coincidence that in all tests which are as close to A/B as can be, the GT2RS and Pista swap back and forth. The GT2RS has Hockenheim, the Pista has Magney Cours and Dunsfold for example, and within the next few months the Merc Black, the 992 gen GT, 765 and SF90 will be dominating the pack. But for the previous generation, the GT2RS and Pista were the cars to beat, pure and simple.

    I'm sure you won't agree, but humour me and explain the following please. How can the SVJ which supposedly is faster than a Perf run a lap on Hockenheim which is significantly slower than both the GT2RS and Pista, and yet is the Perf supposed to be faster than both the normal GT2RS and Pista on the ring? When you combine that with all the inconsistencies of the Perf lap video as well as Lambos unwillingness to disclose details about the car, it just does not add up.

    Coincid, I'm not looking to be in a fight with you over this. All I'm saying is that you need to look at things from more than one angle. We can argue till we are blue in the face about the Perf Ring laps, and neither of us have any hard evidence. But we do have some times which are a bit more consistent to look at for reference, and the three cars grouped together there are the GT2RS, 720S and Pista. If you can find an example outside ofvthe Ring where the Perf or SVJ outruns any of these, I'm willing to accept that in some cases these can hang with the others. But until then, my personal experience on track is what I can go by. As for which is the more fun car to drive? As Shadowfax would tell you, you need seat time to know which is the best for you. For me the Pista is special and thus my pick. I suspect that if I got to know the 765 a bit better, that might have its place too. I just can't get around the 720S/765 look, it's just not me. The Perf? If i want noise, the V12 is what I go to, and as with other Lambos, the awd system is not for me.

    If the Perf is what makes you excited, that's no less right. Sometimes we prefer different things. The abilities of the 765 we can agree on:)

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  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
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    Yes there was a lot about it when the 488 launched. And if you watch Chris Harris review of the 488, he goes into detail about it - and he does njt pull punches when it comes to cowl shake, because,he hates it with a passion.

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  25. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie

    Dec 9, 2014
    3,577
    Canada
    Oct.30/2015- Harris on Cars-

    after driving the Mclaren 650 with its cf tub - driving dynamics is exactly the same in the coupe and spider.

    488 spider - feels very bendy by contrast.
     

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