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458 458 vs 458 speciale

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by darkbard, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    Well, I only have my 458 spider, which is not awful. Maybe I got a good one, lol. And soon enough I’ll have the STO and another spider (F8).

    Hmmmmmm, I wonder if I’ll ever feel the need for the holy grail, that is, a spider which doesn’t shake at all. Obviously some here have.
     
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  3. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    All the Mclaren spiders and the Huracan spiders. The 458 spider is the most extreme modern example of cowl shake and being " bendy ".
     
  4. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    I’m a little surprised. From a rolling start (like 80mph) a Perf outdid my 458, but it didn’t kill it. I would think a 488 would have much greater performance in that range, which is getting into track speed.

    PS, I’ve kinda fallen in love with the Perf since that day (two Sunday’s ago).
     
  5. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

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    The Speciale is just as comfortable in bumpy road mode as the Italia. I had both and ran back to back tests on the same road, same day, same racing seats, same butt. The Speciale is a little stiffer in CT Off, but equally comfy in bumpy road mode.

    The Speciale sound is definitely not as good. With the right aftermarket exhaust, the Speciale will sound better than a stock Italia.

    I do sometimes miss the full leather and carbon interior of my Italia. I don't know if I'll ever sit in a better interior. But I prefer the Speciale in every other aspect, including long distance. (I have a controller that lets me force close the exhaust valves. So the mandatory aftermarket exhaust is suppressed even at 80mph)
     
  6. FerrariCognoscenti

    FerrariCognoscenti Formula Junior

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    Is that healthy for the car?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    If its sound you want from a Speciale, straight pipe it. "Problem" solved.

     
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  9. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    A rolling start is an advantage for a RWD car since it minimizes wheel spin at launch. The Perform-ante puts down its power from a launch instantaneously with the absence of wheel spin due to the tenacious grip afforded by AWD.

    0-60 times between the 458 and Performante are dramatic. The former is in the 3 second range while the latter consistently times circa 2.5 and even as low as 2.3.
     
  10. FFan5

    FFan5 Formula Junior

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    My mechanic says it won't hurt anything if you use it while cruising, but you don't want to keep the valves shut with the car floored. Has to be used responsibly.
     
  11. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    McLaren spider is definitely stiffer but it’s a rather small point over most of the Ferrari spiders. The Pista and the 488 in spider form are just fine. Curiously the GTS is stiffer still, to the point you can’t notice any flex really. The 488 Spider is great driven quickly over all manner of roads. Where a surface is broken enough to cause some scuttle shake, you wouldn’t be having any fun in the McLaren either, so it’s a moot point IMO. I never owned a 458 Spider but friends tell me it’s worse than the 488. I took our Pista spider on track and scuttle shake just didn’t register if it was even there. Too busy having a blast in it. Love that car on track. If anything, Pista is slightly worse for shake than 488 but both are just fine and stiff enough not to disturb your enjoyment. Buy a McLaren or Lambo if you prefer it in other areas, which some do.
     
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  13. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    You acknowledge that the McLaren is definitely stiffer but further in the same sentence, you state it is a small point. Definitely implies that it is readily apparent. For many, that is not a small point.

    You continue by claiming that the Pista spider is even worse with respect to cowl shake than the 488 and yet again dismiss this as not significant. Many would disagree.
     
  14. wthensler

    wthensler Formula 3
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    Don't forget about the pharmaceutical industry, lol!

    A spirited F run in lieu of Xanax goes a long way to cure anxiety.

    Hey, we're up for a run real soon - if I survive the Rappahannock Rough Ride bicycle event this Saturday!
     
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  15. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    People can have their own views of course, but stiffness was not what I enjoyed about our McLaren and (comparative) lack of stiffness is not what I don’t like about our Pista Spider. It’s such a moot point, by the time you’re driving on roads that disturb the Pista Spider, you’re not having any fun in the McLaren either.
     
  16. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    To attempt to justify and diminish the clear and readily observable compromise in Ferrari spider rigidity by claiming it does not tangibly negatively impact upon the driving dynamics since the primary purpose of these cars is having fun, is precisely why Ferrari feels no urgency in addressing issues where they are lagging behind the competition. Why are Ferrari batteries still not capable of holding a charge after a few days of being idle? Why was the sticky buttons fiasco not rectified for decades? These are but a few obvious issues that Ferrari failed to address because Ferrari apologists were overly complacent, passive and accepting. Lucky’s attitude is microcosmic of this predicament.
     
  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran
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    Just curious, but how much ti.e have you spent with the Pista Spider and regular Pista on road and track?

    You are incredibly hell bent on getting your point across about the McLaren being superior in every way, but what experience do you base this off of? In order for you to know what the Pista Spider can and cannot do, you need seat time.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  18. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    Not on track but sufficient driving time to be able to discern that the spider is not as rigid as the coupe. I think the Pista is a stellar car. My only point is that the Ferrari spiders compromise rigidity compared to the coupes. And the spiders are " fun" to drive and the open air experience is still fulfilling for those who enjoy that.

    The Mclaren and the Lamborghini spiders are not susceptible to the same compromise. Period. No other motive, hell bent or not. Chris Harris, whom I suspect you admire, echos my assertions.
     
  19. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    488 Spider definitely jiggly.
     
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  20. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    #117 Coincid, Sep 16, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
    F8 Spider- " with the roof down structural rigidity decreases massively. There is noticeable body flex which gives the car a nervous, disjointed feeling, the body flexes and shakes, the steering shutters. The aluminium chassis is old. The McLaren carbon fiber is stiff as if the chassis is hued from granite. The F8 feels like it is hued from jello." Rory Reid - Autotrader.

    " The aluminum chassis isn't rigid enough. Hit a lateral ridge in the F8 spider and you get a shiver up the car's spine that makes it as far as the steering wheel." - Top Gear.
     
  21. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    Il Co - Did you not have a Pista spider that you replaced with a coupe. Why?
     
  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran
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    I changed because I wanted harnesses, not because it was a Spider. And seeing that I could not get the harnesses, I didn't see much point of it. I didn't want a track focused car for the street, so a coupé was an overall better choice as the Pista is primarily a track thing for me. There are more advantages to the coupé than just the stiffness. I did manage to put 12k km on the Spder in 4 months, so it was not for the lack of willingness to drive it.

    As for Rory Reid, that's one man's opinion, but as our mutual friend Shadowfax would tell you, you need to drive the car to know exactly what it is.
     
  23. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    I only comment on cars that I have personal driving experience. I quoted 3 other reviews simply to emphasize that my driving perceptions with regard to Ferrari spiders are echoed by others.
     
  24. john Owen

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    It seems that the 812 series doesn't suffer too much from rigidity when going open top. I attribute a lot of this to having a pretty substantial 120Kg added in comparison to the F8's 70Kg penalty. The worst offender was the 458 with only 50Kg weight penalty. Lambos typically add about 120Kg in extra bracing when being converted to Spyders.
    Eradicating scuttle shake to a hardly noticeable degree on the F8/Pista would be pretty simple albeit with an extra 50Kg chassis bracing which brings its own issues. I much prefer my Ferraris as solid Coupes as i want to remain unnoticed and avoiding skin cancer on my bald dome.
     
  25. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    Extra mass to minimize cowl shake is wrong headed. The most optimum solution is a carbon fibre tub which not only maximizes rigidity it simultaneously reduces weight. Wonder which car makers does that.
     
  26. 430jm

    430jm Karting

    Jun 11, 2017
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    I just don’t find cowl shake a huge issue in my 458 S. It’s an absolute blast to drive.
     
  27. Clembo

    Clembo Karting
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    The one that doesn’t know how to make engines. Has to buy them :)

    WTH - Battle over everything. If you love to drive something, drive it. If you love to pound the keyboard more than the curvy roads - go for it.

    This is a Ferrari site. Ferrari’s don’t make sense. They elicit passion. If you don’t like them, why spend so much time here?
     
  28. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    I am a car enthusiast. I have great admiration for all makes. In the last 5 years I have owned 4 Lamborghini’s, the F8 and the 765LT. My only loyalty is to the model that appeals to me most fully at any given time.
     

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