458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

my 458 will be here in a couple months, the only reason im still thinking about the mclaren is money.
if i had the cash for it, it wouldnt be a question.
I might think of getting it or the carrerat gt, bentley SS...., but the only reason im thinking, is because of money.
if i had the cash, i get them all. if i dont, then i start comparing it with the 458, CGT, etc.......... with almost anything else.
..........because i cant afford them all, or even more sad, i cant afford any of them.

we present our opinions here all we want trying to justify one over the other, makes sense when we can only buy one.

 

Love that idea!

 

Perfect for this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETmnennvBhM

 

That is so so Funny and true

 

That video is hilarious!!!!!!! Thanks for sharing!

 

Talk is cheap.

Now this Dude can drive.

(About 1 minute mark)

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/video%3A-i-675-crash-caught-on-tape

 

Don't you mean, 'Fly"?

 

^ It twisted my stomach. Reminder to not drive over own ability... Take care guys...

 

The Kid survived (So Far). He was conscious and alert when they picked him up.

Youth.

 

I give it only a 6.56, he came out of the spin too abruptly

 

Interesting that you mentioned the car is a tight fit. Looking at some of the spy pics (see below), the interior looks quite small. The occupants look like they will be getting very friendly with each other, most likely due to the wide door sills. Check the video of J. Leno on youtube – he’s a pretty tight fit.

Of course, keeping the car small and narrow surely helps keep the weight down, and making the door sills very wide to gain chassis stiffness is all good – but at the cost of interior space.

The wide door sills are a way of getting some stiffness into a composite tub that uses a low-cost method since no honeycomb or other core is used so as to keep costs down. Ironically, given that McLaren is promoting the transfer of their pioneering composite design knowledge from F1, the tub was developed by McLaren’s (ex-Ferrari) composite guy while at the ATR Group. ATR is the Italian firm that builds, or built, the composite structure for Enzo, Carrera GT and Bugatti, among others. Article describing low-cost chassis can be found here:

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/innovative-composite-design-may-replace-aluminum-chassis

Apart from the composite tub, the rest of the car is similar to other cars in its class, and price range. While the front suspension upper A-arm is attached to the composite tub, the lower A-arms look to be attached to an aluminum sub frame. The rear suspension upper and lower A-arms are attached to welded aluminum extrusions; same as Ferrari pioneered on the 360.

Unlike a monolithic welded aluminum chassis, though, they have now introduced joints where the aluminum components meet up with the composite tub, adding extra degrees of flexibility. Will be interesting to see how it will work.
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That is a very good article- thanks for posting. Matt Farah (Smoking Tire) just did a nice write-up of his experience sitting in the cars, ergonomics, etc: http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2010/mclaren-mp4-12c-live-unveiling-whats-it-like-to-touch-and-sit-in/

Another interesting consequence of keeping the sills wide and the overall width narrow is the center console, where they have oriented the touch-screen longitudinally rather than the traditional nav orientation. In another article, Sheriff claimed this is b/c it makes more sense to have the screen that way when you are using nav in a "heading UP" mode, since you can see more of the map in the direction that you are traveling. While that does seem to make sense, it makes more sense that it was a necessity b/c of the sill width after reading the article you posted (i.e. there wasn't enough room to make a wider centre console).

Clearly, there is a lot of new tech and process in this chassis design and buyers of this first McLaren will have to be comfortable being "early adopters", so to speak.

Similarly, I am anxious to see how their implementation of brake-steer and the hydraulic roll control system will compare to the e-diff/f1-trac in the Ferraris, the effectiveness of which blows me away every time I drive a Scud on the track. My understanding is that they did save significant weight by going with a brake-steer setup instead of a diff and that they probably saved additional weight with the hydraulic system replacing sway bars, etc. While they claim that "decoupling" of the hydraulics will also allow straight-line ride to be as comfortable as a sedan, I'm curious to know if the overall setup has other compromises that we do not yet know about? One thing that makes me nervous is the failure rate of the hydraulic active body control mechanisms on some AMG Mercs of the past. Not fun to have one corner of your car sagging like a wannabe low-rider.

 

Great idea! Reduce a car's weight by making it smaller! Sounds like McLaren more closely competes with Lotus and the Ariel Atom than it does with the 458.

I, too, have seen people struggle in and out of the car on video, so that's enough to dissuade me from even considering it. I can feel a back ache coming on just thinking about trying to wedge myself in or wiggle myself out.

I'd be willing to bet that once we see a side-by-side photo comparison (no Photoshop, please) of actual cars parked next to one another, the differences between them will become obvious and I predict the 458 will come out on top in terms of overall styling and ergonomics.

 

I went to see the car last week at the Beverly Hills showroom, and i will tell you it was probably one of the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in, in any sports car. I've had back problems for a long time and this was the first seat, which was the standard seat, to conform perfectly to the body. There was plenty of headroom and leg room, but I do agree the fit was definetely snug. Getting in and out wasn't that bad either, much better than a Murcie..

If you have thoughts of buying this car, this will definetely motivate you to go the gym.

 

Yea, I can't wait to see when the cops start grabbing these built-in telemetry do-dads for the court cases.

 

How tall are you?

 

More accurately, perhaps they are simply executing a design philosophy that Ferrari also expounded but then to which they chose not to adhere.

When the millechili was all the buzz, although that was purported to be an Enzo replacement, the Ferrari execs took every opportunity to say it represented the future of Ferrari road cars- more performance through light, innovative construction rather than simply more power. So why is the 458 significantly heavier than the 430 (http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139769605&postcount=33)?

Seems to me that this is maybe the biggest product development challenge for a vehicle in this segment, since the "non-scuderia/stradale/superleggera" versions of these cars are expected to maintain a certain level of amenities, sound attenuation, etc. in addition to stellar performance. The way Ferrari is going, the 458's replacement could have a curb weight closer to 4000 lbs than 3000 (actually in the post linked above, that may already be the case).

 

How tall are you?


I'm 6 ft and had a good 2 1/2 to 3 inches of headroom and with the seat all the way back I could barely reach the pedals..There was also plenty of room for your feet. The car is actually deceiving until you get in it.. Once in, it fit like a fine leather glove !!

 

They also said the concept wouldn't kick in with the next model or two.

 

Well let's hope it doesn't take another 2 product cycles to reverse the trend.

 

+1

 

It's a great car for sure.But.....performance is not really the hook anymore since all the real exotics are engineered beyond the roads or most amateur drivers.And,you don't buy these cars with bull leather grown at 8000 feet to race.Even Nascar and the others have quit the speed game since performance has advanced beyond safety or the older tracks.Subtracting superior performance numbers(and some may be unwilling to do so)leaves it a little easier to choose the car we all love so much.The Ferrari has that certain sex appeal that little else has.Also a logo known and revered by all.For me the Ferrari,for my neighbor,well he won't hurt my property value if he parks his McLaren next door.Finally, I remember an earlier posting,page 2 or 3 I think, where Hawkeye said it so well.

 

The major issue w/the McLaren MC12 or whatever in h&ll it is called is the giant cartoon shark gills on its sides. The understated, nondescript, parody supercar, bar of soap look is fine with me but I don't like the cartoon Hot Wheels side styling. Otherwise it will eat the 458 for breakfast on the track.

But it takes driving and not just looking. Cars tend to look better if you like how they feel.

 

main issue is it is ugly....