458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

August numbers only indicate that sales were up for those manufacturers but that's hardly a reason to compare to Ferrari. Porsche/MBZ/and Audi have MUCH more different models and much more the volume and in no way shape or form can you form an opinion against Ferrari. Now, if those numbers would indicate sales volume of models then I think it'd show to be on par with Ferrari.

Bottom line, the economy sucks and ALL exotic car manufacturers are having a hard time.

 

The Germans do higher volume, and the GT2 RS is extremely ltd. production.

It seems illogical to compare Ferraris sales with the three German Giants.



_J

 

Napolis also noted that Maserati was up...

 

Hate to be a party ruiner but this has all been decided on a golf course or a Nazi bdsm shop or wherever heavy-hitting Euros get together to hash out business. McLaren told Ferrari that they are entering the market or it could have been Ferrari that brought this up to McLaren since a little fake competition would probably help Ferrari out too. Ferrari said fine and told McLaren what segment of the market they could have. That segment of the market likes supercars with the latest and greatest, but they don't like the flash and they don't like the Ferrari treatment, and for this reason they are on the sidelines. On paper it looks like they are competing but in reality they are working together.

Also, the proof for this is in the looks of the McLaren. The McLaren has it all except for the looks and that romance thing, and both are things that could be easily taken care of, but McLaren won't because they are not really competing against Ferrari, although on paper they are. I mean, even a twelve year old knows that looks are very important to a supercar and that McLaren made a huge blunder, but they didn't. It was all by design.

 

MB's New Gullwing/Ferrari's Calif.
P's GT2 RS/ Ferrari's 458
P's 918/Ferrari's Enzo replacement
Audi V10 R8 Spyder/Ferrari Calif.
VW's Super Bentley/Ferrari's 612.
Macca's MP4/Ferrari 458
Astons 77/ Ferrari 599GTO

 

Not sure they'll hit their # mid-'geddon, but ...

Among U.S. enthusiasts McLaren is a pretty decent brand. Race scoreboard aside, the only other semi-current singularly McLaren road car, the F1, is understood to be a present and future classic (investment even?).

Re: McLaren contribution to M-B. Ask collectors of multiple exotics who own an SLR among them how it ranks as a driver and you'll likely find further merit to McLaren.

Though, granted, not all customers are enthusiasts ...

 

The Macca F1 is a good example. There is no production Ferrari Supercar worth what one of those is worth today.

 

I wouldn't put the One-77 in the mix, it's three times the cost of the GTO and will have the same production numbers as the Roadster. I'd also say the GT2 RS would be more akin to the 458 Scuderia when that comes out.

 

From Car magazine this month
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This is from Motor Autothority magazine:

"We've delved into McLaren's future car plans before, but a new report out today puts some structure to the models to come. With one new model or model variant planned per year for the next half-decade, we'll have much to look forward to from the Woking team.

The McLaren MP4-12C isn't due to sell until next year, and even then it will be limited to just 1,000 units. That's a small number even by supercar standards: the Ferrari 458 Italia has already sold 1,248 models worldwide.

Other cars in the McLaren pipeline remain cloaked in secrecy, though our previous investigations into the matter hint at a roughly $100,000 sports car. That's a relative bargain in McLaren terms, and could be positioned to do battle with the lower end of the Porsche 911 spectrum, just as the MP4-12C is a heads-up competitor for the Porsche 911 GT2 and Ferrari 458 Italia.

Beyond that, however, the lineup is wide-open for speculation. A hypercar F1 successor? Possible. A car to slot between the rumored $100,000 car and the MP4-12C? Likely, even. A special hardcore, lightweight variant of any of the MP4-12C? Another solid candidate. Toss in a soft-top variant of the MP4-12C, which is almost a given, and you're close to a full deck. There's still some room for more or different possibilities, but don't expect a Cayenne-like SUV. McLaren has stated it will only build sports cars.
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1048966_report-mclaren-planning-5-new-models-over-next-5-years

 

The Hunt for the Good Looking MP4.

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread there will be an F1 successor, the final design was just signed off on. It took 10 months to complete, radical design as well.

 

Ferrari have never in our country provided demonstrator cars to drive before the Cali came along (we know they needed to do that to try & sell them), let alone a new model such as the 458, yet all dealers in Australia have a 458 demonstrator or are getting one. This tells me they are struggling to meet expected numbers & can't just sell cars, as in the past, on the Ferrari name alone.

Furthermore, I have never heard of a new Ferrari model such as one like the 458 being discounted, even after 2 years, let alone the first ones to arrive, but this is actually happening in some cases here.

If McLaren arrives into dealer & customer hands & follows through with the customer support being implied by their actions at & post Pebble as you suggest, they will definitely be direct competition & IMO will eat into Ferrari sales worldwide.

Maybe this is ultimately good for Ferrari, as the competition will force them to improve in areas they are currently deficient & certainly it will benefit the customer.

 

Quote from Autoblog

" When we sat down with Antony Sheriff in Pebble Beach, we bombarded McLaren's managing director with a raft of questions about the MP4-12C. Properly geeked on the Ferrari 458-fighter, we asked what else McLaren had planned in its quest to become a sort of full-line sports car purveyor.
Naturally, Sheriff remained mum, but we know based on earlier reports that three core models are in the works, with the MP4-12C out first, followed by either a F1 supercar successor or a Porsche 911 competitor "

Their Volume is going to come from a 911 competitor which should be easy hunting as along as they price it within 20% of the Porsche

 

The F1 successor specs will not be announced until McLaren knows performance stats of the Enzo replacement. After which they will set out to beat the Ferrari

 

Suppliers have already started working on the car, it'll be shown next year.

 

I presumed they would follow the MP4 route and try to trump Ferrari on performance stats.
Plus they have not even put their first car in the hands of owners yet they are embarking on another car.
Sounds a little too ambitious

 

I agree with that. But, Ferrari will never go there. Why? To compete with Porsche at that price, you need to sell 20 to 30 thousand cars a year. Not only can Ferrari not do that without significant investment, it would damage the brand.

However, it's about time someone took on the 911. It's a good car but Porsche has been way too lazy (or scared) with the styling.

 

Very interesting!

 

The MP4 has been in development for 5 or 6 years, well before anyone knew of the 458. They definately seem to be coming out swinging, time will tell.. should be a fun ride though.

 

I don't think Ferrari will ever go there either.
That's why they have Maserati

 

An excellent point. Wouldn't it be great for them to make a 911 fighter?

 

Yes would be great to see Maserati do a mid engined 2+2
What gets me annoyed is when other manufactures say they
have a 911 fighter and it ends up a front engined car. Like
Aston did with their Vantage

 

Looking at the performance of the latest 911 GT2 RS, I would say the 458 and Mac are 911 fighters.

With the performance Porsche extracts from the steel-bodied 911, it makes you wonder if there's any real advantage to an aluminum or carbon fiber (albeit a low-budget version for the Mac) platform.