458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

missed the point, read the post to understand

 

What was the point, then?

 

Better reference here: http://www.germancarforum.com/mclaren/30682-official-mclaren-mp4-12c-11.html

 

No, i didn't said that. Its true that I prefer the 458 interior. But not the dash is what i am talking about. Is the easy of acces, the way you step in a Ferrari vs Mc. In the passager seat of a 458 you will probably see a woman. Mc is not that type of car to come to a official dinner in your suit with your wife in a dress. If you do this with a Mc probably you will look like a parrot, stepping down from the seats over those big chassis edge...

Its a awsome performance car. Maybe the best for now. Its a toy for track maybe the best for now. Its clearly better than a 458 in terms of clocked performance. But it never can be all that a 458 is. it doesnt have de elegange the style , the beauty. For many people that counds 100 times more than 1second to 100mph or 2 seconds over a lap.


Just my opinion

 

Heads up race with the MP4-12C, 458 and 911 turbo....

http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/mclaren-mp4-12c-vs-ferrari-458-vs-porsche-911-turbo-drag-race

 

Pretty relevant stuff said in this article

http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Monkey-Harris/blogs/index.cfm/2011/2/14/CHRIS-HARRIS-Further-thoughts-on-the-McLaren-MP4-12C

 

That is a good one.

It's funny, because when I watch the video and see how fast the thing is, I honestly felt a little mad like "how dare them!" The I start to wonder why. I mean what does it matter? The car looks to be fantastic. But I just don't want one. Would I love to drive one? Sure. If you gave me one would I be thrilled? Yup. Will I ever spend my money on one? No.

I guess that is the whole tifosi thing. That and I agree with Chris Harris' last thought. The performance figures are sorta meaningless. It's the emotional connection. It's the same reason I'd rather have a CS over a 430 or a 458 over either. Or a 288 GTO over anything out there. It only matter what I want, not what the data shows.

It is an awesome car though. It will keep Ferrari honest.

 

The interesting thing is that some of the points Chris Harris makes in contrasting 458 and MP4, he also made when comparing 458 and GT3 RS.
To me, from the early reviews, it looks like McLaren built a super-458: much faster and yet even more comfortable. Greatly aided in this quest by technology. I have to say it worries me a little bit. 458 used a lot of electronics as performance aids (as opposed to safety ones on previous cars). The consequence is the car feels a bit artificial, compared with, for example, the scud. Ferrari had little choice given the fundamental structure of the car. However, McLaren does have a choice, but it might be making the wrong one.

On the other hand, Chris paid a very high compliment to the Mc here:
".. On a straight, bumpy road, it’s more comfortable than a Merc E-Class, change direction and it’s sharper than a GT3.."

 

Before everyone gets too worked up with the performance of the MP4-12C, remember they are pre-production and who knows what kind of engine calibration they have. Turbo cars are very, very easy to electronically tune and if they were run on race fuel, they could have had significantly more power than we'll see in production.

Not that McLaren would provide ringers to the press or anything, but I am going to wait and see

 

I thought these new test drives released the lagt 24-48 hours were production cars? I know some reviews are of pre-production cars, but they are old/from last year.

Can't wait to hear the F-Chatters review on the car.

 

I don't see how the Macca would have differing fundamentals. Brake steer etc are go fast electronic items. The 458 has emotion built intrinsically into it, even with electronics

 

Weight and structure. And no, it feels cold and remote compared to the scud. The best description of that phenomenon is in the Forza article comparing the two on the track.

 

I was comparing 458 to 12C, and some still disagree, that's more of a F1 vs Dual Clutch vs 3 pedal argument I think.

To me Ferrari has built an older structure that competes with the top level cutting edge structure, yes it's quite defeated, but we still haven't seen the 458s full potential, or the drawbacks of the new design. It could very well be that the tub doesn't have any drawbacks, but that is an unknown as of now

 

Here's the funny part of this entire argument.

The Mp4 is fast. Very fast maybe.

I guess now I should be embarrassed to drive my F430 because it's "so slow" compared to the 458 and now the even faster 12C.

Oh no! How can I show my face in public!

And, how can any 360 even CONSIDER taking his car out now! It must be totally embarrassing for them. All these cars are so SLOW!

Geez. We might as well just dump our cars on ebay tomorrow in shame....

Ummmmmm.... I think NOT because it doesn't make any difference in the world.

 

It is quite obvious from the first reviews coming out in magazines that the 12c is a faster and probably better car than the 458 and any other car in it's class at the moment.

Obviously looks are very personal and I don't particularly like it.....

Most of us buy a Ferrari for the emotions and the excitement it brings am I right? I don't think the 12c does that and Chris Harris (never tender with Ferrari) says: "Yes - that no one understands the emotional side to these machines like Ferrari does, and the MP4-12C, for all its brilliance, serves as a reminder. It’s not unemotional, it sounds great in ‘track’ mode, it steers beautifully and its engineering is intriguing – but it is a car you admire deeply rather than one you sell your family to own"

I am sure some people will buy it instead of a Ferrari but I think the brands that could really be in difficulties are Audi with the r8 v10 and Lamborghini with the Gallardo. In any case there is more than enough market for 2000 458's and 2000 12c a year. At least for now...

The good thing ultimately for Ferrari and us buyers is that will push them to make even better and faster cars in the future as they did after the nsx and the ford gt40..

 

I so agree with you!
Lamborghini has to work very hard for the next Gallardo... But Lambo knows how to make beautiful and noisy cars!

 

For 90% (or more) of the people on the road, a 360 is scary fast I gave a non-enthusiast friend a ride in NSX once ("only 280 hp and no torque") and he sat there screaming in joy with the face of terror Maybe the big power thing is an American thing. Most people all over the world drive plain cars with 100-200 hp and a when they step in to a Ferrari, 348-360, it's plenty fast. In US it seems that 300 hp in a small sedan is no big deal at all.

 

Yeah and the new Ferrari 4 seater AWD hatchback is much better for soccor Moms, hauling groceries, and taking home large boxes of Depends from Sam's Club...

 

While going 0 to 60 in 3.7 seconds and 198 MPH! Those kids better hang on!

 

Hey, that appeals to me

Though I'm not a soccer mom

 

In the US we have people buying stuff that claims to make your "weiner" bigger.

What we don't think about is how to use your "weiner" better.

It's the same for the Mp4-12c. It's a bigger weiner but it doesn't get you home any faster in rush hour traffic. A 100 MPH traffic ticket for speeding is the same in a McLaren as it is a Ferrari.

 

Is this your V-Day theme for the thread? LOL.

BTW - I just put a deposit on one an I know my "weiner" is a bit bigger already!! LOL.

 

Just to clarify - serious about the Deposit, not about the....well you know.

 

I was talking about these:

Vienna Weiners are much smaller than Ball Park...but far superior!
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I think you've got a good point there. My problem, is that there's just nothing "interesting" about this car. Performance is one thing, but am I interested in a car with Jenson Button's approval?