458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts? | Page 36 | FerrariChat

458 vs McLaren MP4-12C--- Your thoughts?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by mikebrinda, Jun 7, 2010.

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  1. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
    785
    Darien, ct
    Full Name:
    Krzysztof
    That was not directed against you. However, there is lots of people here, who are not interested in any discussion about the merits/demerits of the two cars, but in constantly shifting arguments with the same pre-ordained conclusion: Ferrari is best. I come here b/c I look to discuss the comparison since I am slightly hesitant myself, although by now clearly leaning towards the Macca.

    This Forum has been very helpful when talking to open minded people, but the sheer volume of fan-boyism is a bit depressing.
     
  2. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
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    Krzysztof
    I understand, but you are implying that he's jumping on Macca's bandwagon, while his EVO review suggests otherwise.
     
  3. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    That's exactly why I'm so confused too, his EVO review seems to be in a different light (down to personality too) than what he's written in Jalopnik.
     
  4. Superquant

    Superquant Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2009
    431
    +1000. And this is coming from a 458 owner that loves the car.
     
  5. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
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    Krzysztof
    It's not, though. Notice what he says in Jalopnik:
    "...Of course their attempts to stop me makes it an even better sport and merely hardens my resolve, but the sad thing is its cars are so good it doesn't need all this ****e. I'll repeat that for the benefit of any vestige of a chance I might have of ever driving a Ferrari press car ever again (which is virtually none). "Its cars are so good it doesn't need this ****e." ..."

    There is no inconsistency. He's just calling out Ferrari on their practices. He clearly loves the cars.
     
  6. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    I'll concede that :eek:
     
  7. fire_n_ice

    fire_n_ice Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2006
    1,087
    Holy crap I just read Harris's jalopnik article. I need to digest it before commenting here. I hope there are no repercussions for him from Evo themselves, cuz that was brave.
     
  8. absent

    absent F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    illinois
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    mark k.
    I question not the substance of his rant but the timing of it.
     
  9. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
    785
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    Krzysztof
    Nobody seems to have commented on the much bigger news item I posted earlier, which sounds much more unbelievable than Harris' rant:

    7 min flat at the ring !!!!!!!

    Come on, guys. There has to be some cheating there.
     
  10. Russell996

    Russell996 Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2010
    2,263
    New Forest UK
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    Russell
    People have pointed to inconsistencies, no idea myself but seems very odd to rant in this way, at this time and using this outlet?
     
  11. mclarenferrari

    mclarenferrari Karting

    Jul 13, 2010
    178
    I'll comment :D

    Like I said before, when rumors were swirling about the Ring time, I was blown away. If McLaren does decide to make a "Scuderia" model of the 12C (as Steve Sutcliffe implies), it might even rival the Zonda R or the 599XX in lap time. And be road legal.

    I'm falling in love with this car...
     
  12. fire_n_ice

    fire_n_ice Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2006
    1,087
    I'm falling in love with the exhaust note in that Sutcliffe vid!
     
  13. rcraig

    rcraig F1 Rookie

    Dec 7, 2005
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    I wonder why people see no problem with McLaren setting up this test under their own conditions. Embargoing the results. Real journalists don't accept embargoes without some compelling reason.
    Who really knows what they supplied since there are no customer cars to compare with. Who knows what the US smog equipped version will be like etc.
    I'm sure they carefully picked this very smooth lovely track with a certain type of circuit for a reason. Why not in England?

    The car looks wonderful, but now that some of the normal first look excitement has died down, we're starting to hear a bit of talk of too good, too precise. Maybe just a little bit of the Nissan GTR talk.

    I even like the the looks a lot better then earlier, but the silver makes it look a bit bland to me, I do like the orange, and the air brake is kinda cool.

    What I really wonder about though is the price. If they get to the 4000 number and then produce a much more advanced version(not a scud, but a whole step above this) how are they paying for the fancy new factory and tons of R + D. I find it hard to see a profit from this start-up venture. Unless I am missing something McLaren are saying it is completely separate from their racing division.

    For comparison, look at the figures for what Fisker is investing for their new car and this is with almost $600,000,000 from the US government.
     
  14. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    To counter Harris this "customer car" seems to do quite well for itself :)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAzM11mUrjw&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xviTTMlPxg&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=313846
     
  15. Superquant

    Superquant Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2009
    431
  16. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    I can't wait to see the 2k mile review
     
  17. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
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    Krzysztof
    #892 [email protected], Feb 15, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
    No, this exactly confirms Chris's point:
    "... Of course their attempts to stop me makes it an even better sport and merely hardens my resolve, but the sad thing is its cars are so good it doesn't need all this ****e. I'll repeat that for the benefit of any vestige of a chance I might have of ever driving a Ferrari press car ever again (which is virtually none). "Its cars are so good it doesn't need this ****e." ..."

    You guys are just weird. Chris is attacking Ferrari for cheating you and you react as if he attacked you. Beyond bizarre.
     
  18. fire_n_ice

    fire_n_ice Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2006
    1,087
    Well I suppose it might have to pull 1.8g to accomplish that. 7 min flat would be beyond ridiculous. It would be just rude.

    I drove the Gumpert last year and the only thing that even remotely resembles a street car is the fact that the tires are technically street legal. But they are friggin massive anyway. The splitter sits an inch off the pavement and the power/weight is like 700hp/2700lb. Now Sutcliffe is implying that the 12C could better the Gumpert by 10-11 seconds?? If he wasn't so well respected, I'd have to call BS. I mean c'mon, 5 seconds off a Radical SR8?
     
  19. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
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    I agree. The time seems impossible.
     
  20. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
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    Now you've completely lost me, these videos show a real world car putting up figures that would indicate Ferrari didn't lie about their times (I know it's a few tenths off but the driver didn't use launch control) :confused:
     
  21. fire_n_ice

    fire_n_ice Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2006
    1,087
    LOL,

    Engineer to Ron: "...er, um.. we may have over-engineered it a tad."

    Ron: "Huh? How so?"

    Engineer: "Well, customers are starting to out-qualify Lewis."
     
  22. Markjayw

    Markjayw Karting
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    Jul 22, 2010
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    Let me finish this ridiculous thread on a Ferrari Forum, the new McLaren is BUTT ugly period. The wheel choices are attrocious. The 458 is gorgeous, as is the new Esprit coming out in 2013. You can only go so fast in the USA, I for one would at least like to look good if I was forking out that kind of cash. Please 458 owner's, don't sell your cars.
     
  23. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 12, 2004
    5,566
    Montreal
    Like the side air intakes designed to mimic their incredibly boring logo?

    You make it sound like they're the only guys in the world that know how to use hi-tech CFD tools for aero analysis. More impressive, I think, is that the 458 can generate good aero numbers with clever cooling schemes without resorting to massive scoops and spoilers.

    I find it suspicious also that they haven't bragged about downforce levels beating the 458. Interesting comment in the C&D review: "High-speed stability is slightly shaky", though the rest of that sentence is incongruous.

    Also interesting in the C&D report is that the hydraulic suspension is not a McLaren stroke of genius (maybe the choice to use it is), but it's the same system as on Infiniti SUV's!

    I can see Ferrari adding a turbo and hydraulic suspension on their 458 replacement and the one-upmanship game will be reset!
     
  24. fire_n_ice

    fire_n_ice Formula 3

    Jun 9, 2006
    1,087
    Congratulations!

    Oh but wait- the thread isn't finished...
     
  25. krzys@earthlink.net

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2007
    785
    Darien, ct
    Full Name:
    Krzysztof
    My point (or Chris's) is that they optimize all over the place making sure that they win every comparison test, but their cars are pretty much at the top anyway. In many cases, there is no need to cheat, yet they still do.
     

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