I have a 6spd 360, just got a little financial surprise in the mail so started looking at 430's. Found an 05 F1 with 8000 miles. I went to see it today, looks brand new inside and out but they ran the diagnostic which showed 46% clutch wear. Does this seem high for an 8000 mile car? How much life is left? What would a replacement clutch cost ballpark? Is that level of wear indicative of the car being abused or just reversed out of an uphill driveway too often? Thanks in advance.
Laurence- Sounds like a lot of city stop and go driving. That will wear out a clutch in a hurry. The 46% would seem to match up with those in the clutch mileage thread who had to replace their clutches at ~20K miles. Others got way more mileage out of theirs. How long it lasts will depend on your technique and driving conditions. Taz Terry Phillips
I did a PPI on an F1 2003 360. That car had 6,000 miles and 55% clutch wear. I don't know how common this is or what it means about the durability of the F1 transmission but it was part of my decision to stick with a manual (pun intended).
Unless the measurement was taken using all initial PIS settings from original installation of the clutch, that percentage of wear figure is a vague approximation at best. Not having a proper basis for taking the measurement simply renders it useless and makes drawing any conclusions from it a mistake.
Could also be that he had a steep driveway that he had to back up through. Nothing smokes the clutch faster on these cars than backing up slowly on a steep incline. You can usually smell the clutch burning after such a go.
Loz When I did my PPI, I remember that you can also get the read out of the total times of how long each gear was engaged and how many times. This data in combination of % gear left should give you some additional data point? Also if you have decided on this car, then you can do fluid analysis to give you some more ideas on the car internal tear and wear Best of luck
When I got my 430 it had 6000 miles and 22% Clutch wear, the weather has been really bad here in Scotland so for the 1st 1000 miles I had been mainly driving in low grip mode. The car went to the dealer after 1000miles to get some things checked and the clutch wear was at 24.7 so I figured with my driving style approx 3% per 1000 miles might be the norm. After reading a lot about caring for the F1 clutch I stopped using low grip mode as that can cause wear and keep it in sport and don't use auto, I'm careful when moving off and generally just try to drive the car as I would with a manual box. I've done another 1000miles since then and I was back at the dealer very recently and while there I got another clutch wear reading, this time it was 24.72 so by reading up a lot here and being careful it's meant minimal wear on the clutch which I was very pleased about. So my car is now an 8000mile car with 24.72% clutch wear. Don't know if that helps at all but thought I'd share my experience. Also should mention, in the UK as part of the Ferrari approved scheme if a clutch is more than 40% worn it'll be changed before sale. John.
Thanks John, good feedback. I understand from reading various threads that auto doesn't wear the clutch anymore than manual shifting?
Are there ways to preserve the clutch like coasting in "N" etc...when approaching stops etc... Would one have to downshift thru all the gears to reach neutral first? In my cars sometimes ill shift from 1st to 3rd etc.. Obviously ive never had the pleasure of driving an F1 yet.
Brian Attached is the data that I was referring to from a SD2 read out. Would this work? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Dave- You can shift to Neutral in any gear just by pulling back on both paddles simultaneously. Coasting to a stop in Neutral will prevent automatic downshifts to first gear. Whether this aids clutch wear seems to be somewhat of a knifefight. Even though I was captain of the fencing team, I will stay out of that one. Some people are rough on clutches, whether three pedals or F1, but the type of driving you do (ie city or highway) probably has more to do with clutch wear. Driving hard, as Rifledriver implied, will not increase clutch wear very much. Laurence- Here is a 612 thread on clutch wear that might help on where to start worrying. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247912&highlight=clutch+wear Taz Terry Phillips
My only data point is my F430. The car had 15% clutch wear when I bought the car at 2300 miles on the clock. The weak spot of F cars and Lambos is the clutch. The substrate used is not as long lasting as the american cars such as corvette or the Porshe. My Lambo at 200 miles had the clutch replaced. my friend who bought a new Murci went thru his clutch in about a month. He sold the car and bought a Z06. I am told the lambo clutchs are better now that Audi has improved the design. The dealer mechanics told me this and I trust them since the dealership told me earlier before I bought the car from them that the weak spot on Lambos is the clutch and most importantly how to drive so it lasts longer I have put 4200 miles on my Lambo and so far no clutch wear problems. To be honest I drive it like an old man, skip gears most of the time and only occasionly run it hard. Okay to be honest I am an old man so it is easy for me to be gentle with it. Both F and L cars will take agresive driving on the clutch as long as you do not do it often. Lee
46% at 8,000 miles seemes about normal to me, I am a ferrari tech in north carolina and rarely do I see an f1 get more than 20,000 mi out of a clutch...thats why I would go with the manual. F1 is a really cool system don't get me wrong...but it can cost$$$
Casey, it is really great to have you chime in on these discussions. Your input is invaluable. Thanks.
The % wear for this mileage is high... if you really like the car from all other aspects and after inspecting everything else, I would test drive the car for at least 1/2 hour before closing the deal, which in my opinion should be: - If gear jumps into neutral at least 1 time, ask for either clutch replacement, or discount to replace it yourself, or drop the deal - If car behaves normally, the reading is probably off , i would use the reading to ask for an extra discount , and buy the car. To me, test driving the car and checking all systems: transmission, steering, engine, braking, H/AC, electrical, etc... is a MUST. good luck... ... going to check my mail box now
I am not surprised that the clutch has a short life. To get a fast gearchange you have to be able to declutch and reclutch fast. That means you want to minimize the mass of the parts that have to be moved-- the clutch disc(s). low clutch disc mass = not much clutch lining material = short clutch life = frequent replacement = happy, profitable dealers To be fair, it seems to me from perusing the ads that the vast majority of these cars get so few miles on them that few owners will actually have the car long enough to have to replace it.
