488 GTB (458 replacement)

On the other hand, Honda admitted today that they are nowhere near the performance standards of current engines...

 

Well...supply is far less than demand in the gt3's case. I would have been interesting to se the gt3's true potential.

 

Which fact? GT3 sales is almost equal to all turbo. Consider the turbo has cabriolet version, and the GT3 is not being mass-produced to meet the demand.
Fyi, current GT3 is sold out. GT3 RS has lots of people put deposit. How about turbo? My local dealer has turbo and turbo S ready stock in different colors both coupe and cab. Then look at the resale value of turbo VS GT3. The turbo will drop just like any Audi or Land rover, while GT3 will retain it's value.
From this, we come to a conclusion that a model is more wanted for it's passion. Speed is not really important. We are not talking about diesel SUV's performance here, but 0-100 for 0.1 second faster, who really cares???

 

Speed is not really important? omg, I'm definitely in the wrong thread!

 

Turbo s is much faster than a gt3 but does not have same feel. Gt3 much more limited supply. New gt3 rs will be even more so. Despite me ordering a brand new rs in 10 I have been denied a slot for the 15 car as it's supply so much more limited.

 

The new Gt3 as you know had really many problems due to the new engine and the production at first was stopped and later has been severely slowed.So for the current 991 gt3 I would not consider any statistic actually..

 

GTS for DD, I sold my 991 a couple months ago and have been switching off on weekends between the 12C and 458. But I miss the 991, waiting to see the GTS when it comes back in 991 form.

 

If speed is everything, people would have all bought the Canon MP4-12C instead of 458, but why 458 is selling better? Because 458 looks better (subjective) AND SOUNDS WAY BETTER (objective) than Canon. You know what, if speed is all you want, I can do it very cheap and easy for you. Get a Datsun GTR, bring it to a performance store called Switzer. With only USD 60,000 they will make your Datsun runs faster than Bugatti Veyron. Those 458, 650S, etc will easily become a small dot in the mirror. Does the Switzer's stock outperform Facebook or Coca Cola? Does Warren Buffett buy Switzer's stocks? NO. Because nobody cares about 0-200kmh in 2 seconds faster. People want passion, DE LOOK AND DE SOUND.
Of course it's a different story if 458 runs slower than Mercedes ML350 bluetec diesel, but currently a new VW Golf GTI is already too fast for the public road, and 458 will smoke that GTI to become a small dot in the mirror.

 

Thanks - It may arrive early 2015 as a 2016 model.
Rumor has it that it will be an updated 991 with a chassis code of 991.2

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1094047_porsche-to-unveil-new-911-gts-at-2014-los-angeles-auto-show-rumor

 

Thanks Jaz, I have always had a 911 as my DD, but the 991 was so perfect as commuter that it almost lacked some of the excitement of my previous 997 6 Speed. But waiting to see the GTS as well, would love to get another one as my DD. My original plan was 991 as a DD and my 458 for weekends, but my 12C screwed up that plan 2 years ago.

 

12C is not a bad screw up Good luck and Enjoy

 

LOOK AND SOUND? The core values, the main features, the unique selling proposition of the sportiest and strongest race-oriented Ferrari product line are appearance and sound? mik458spider, I come back to my earlier conclusion.

 

Well the Resale will be as I am an original Owner (12C) who paid full sticker, but oh well more reason to enjoy it then sell it. Let me know how you go on the GTS, I just saw the new Targa at my local dealership and it is stunning! I cannot do anything until December.

 

Your 12C deal sounds similar to when I paid 50k over for 2007 599 - Ouch !
Anyways will keep you posted on the what kind of deal I get on the GTS - Take care

 

Sounds great!

 

You have your own orientation about Ferrari's product. If you are right, then Ferrari shouldn't make cabriolet, FF (4WD), suspension lifter, air cond, parking sensor, etc. Because those are not race oriented stuff. You need to make difference between F1 and public road. Like I said, it's not that current Ferrari models are slow like diesel, but to give up passion for something unclear about so-called race orientation, speed on top of everything but hey, the car still has a windshield wiper, is also not Ferrari's core values except your own.

 

Correct me if I am wrong ... but I believe Daniel meant product with the strongest race-oriented meant for the street with some practicality factored into for car enthusiasts to be driven on the public road.

 

Thank you RC33!

Ferrari with its product mix is able to address different customer expectations. I dare to say that with the mid-engine product line primary the race performance oriented customers are in Ferrari's focus (ok, I learnt in this thread that there are a few exceptions with a penchant for Klimt and Beethoven...).

With the 458 successor Ferrari will set one time more the new market benchmark regarding performance capabilities. And that makes me happy!
Look and sound? Nice but not decisive.

 

I totally disagree with this, the 458 already has a level of performance which cannot be truly exploited anywhere but in 3rd world countries or race tracks so the sound and looks are vitally important to the experience.

What's the point of having a super fast car that only feels special when you are driving the wheels off it?

 

I'm absolutely with u on this. I feel that cars are getting way too quick for its own good. We keep having to go faster and faster just to be excited in many cars these days. Speed limit isn't moving along in tandem, so I really don't see the logic is making cars go faster and faster. We are gonna run out of roads to drive these cars very soon...

 

Which benchmark is Ferrari going to set in performance figure? With USD 60,000 Datsun GTR will have 1,000 hp and goes like missile from 0-200 in less than 8 seconds. This competition never ends. Currently in youtube, a modified VW Golf already runs faster than Speciale.
It's not like current 458 is so slow like a diesel truck. It's also good that Ferrari can make it faster without taking away the passion, like they did in 458 to Speciale. But make it faster by taking away one of the most vital part of passion : DE SOUND, is not a good decision.
I'm pretty sure the reason behind turbo is not performance nor mpg, but $$$. It would be much cheaper to increase boost than revs. It doesn't require lots of investment in engine division to produce a successor, just add some boost, just like guys in local custom stores have been doing.

 

True they are getting too fast for the road.That's why I want to get a second car that is more usable
Like the upcoming 991 GTS or maybe even the new AMG GT - apples and oranges but still performance cars

 

Ferrari's benchmark's are not pure performance spec's of other cars
Rather they look to deliver best driving experience - IMO

 

Don't get why you're all so worried. Just skip the facelift and get the new model when it comes out say 2019 or so.


430 just an iteration of 360 and arguably not that much better. 458 miles better than 430. 458t will sound terrible but may be great who knows. I doubt it will be all that amazing. But it's successor most likely a hybrid but will be NA so sound will be retained and probably a huge jump in all areas.

Conversely; buy a 'cheap' 360 and get a good aftermarket exhaust - sound be the pinnacle of all NA engines. And also buy the 458t for everything else it will offer (except sound)

 

Yes, you are right. Ferrari is being famous of passion. The most important part of passion are :
- The look.
- The sound : screaming sound is a trademark.
- Driving impression : agility and throttle response are legendary.
- Technologies : Taken from F1 to the road.
- Speed.

Now our friend says that the only stuff important is speed. As long as Ferrari can set a speed benchmark, then even the car sounds like vacuum cleaner and drives like simulator, is not a problem. I don't think so. Speed competition will never end with turbocharged engine. If today Ferrari's turbo runs faster, tomorrow other brands will add some more boost and run faster than Ferrari. Which speed benchmark are you going to set. Currently Switzer Datsun GTR runs faster than Veyron, is Ferrari going to beat this benchmark? I think it's better to have a new Ferrari which is lighter and revs higher (more driving impression and sound) rather than having one with boost (faster but sounds like vacuum cleaner, and legendary throttle response replaced with sudden push sensation)