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488 GTB (458 replacement)

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by synergy, Aug 7, 2014.

  1. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gotcha. Thanks. I need to be in a better system to hear...iPad and my headphones aren't letting me hear it.
     
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  3. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    6,098
    Bournemouth, UK
    Call me a purist mate...
     
  4. HoboPie

    HoboPie Karting

    Apr 16, 2004
    212
    It wasn't even a complaint, but if I had any issue with the 458, which I love, is that from the front it looks a little too thin, a little too vertical. It could be my imagination or just the details this time around, but it looks a little wider.

    I never had the issue from the back, just front.
     
  5. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 21, 2008
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    Just gotta get the right one. Underground Racing would be my choice for a turbo these days. They stand by their products and I've yet to hear of anyone destroying engines in any of their cars. They'll build the engine too if you want it.

    In the end, if you need an engine rebuild after 50K miles on modded 458, I think you got your money's worth.
     
  6. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Got it ; )
     
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  8. RonnieRenaldi

    RonnieRenaldi F1 Rookie
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  9. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
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    Interesting article; thanks for posting.

    I think the message is great overall. Turbos don't really save fuel, they just cheat a flawed test. Ferrari would not have gone turbo unless forced. BMW would not have gone turbo on their M motors either if they had not been forced to do so.

    However, he sounds a bit foolish with his oversimplification of turbos. It is absolutely not true that a trade off must be made in turbo size anymore. With variable geometry turbos and twin scrolls, you can add power everywhere without choking the engine.

    I'm waiting for the Chris Harris review. That will tell us where the throttle response is on this motor vs the NA 4.5 and 4.3.
     
  10. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Big turbos still suffer from lag. Even the P1 has some compared to a NA engine.
     
  11. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
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    I don't believe you. The p1 has torque fill on-demand via programming from the electric power plant. I find it hard to believe that there is any appreciable lag.

    Now as to big, static turbos...they simply aren't used on the latest gen cutting edge motors. They are going to involve twin scroll setups, variable geometry (can be whatever size it wants), sequential, etc.
     
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  13. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Haven't driven the P1 myself but Harris and some other testers said that they could still sense some lag...
     
  14. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
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    I need to rewatch his review; I don't recall that.
     
  15. YAMVS6

    YAMVS6 Karting

    Jan 26, 2011
    138
    ohio
    760nm at 3000 rpms,huge torque number,also Titanium turbine rotors twin scroll design
     
  16. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
    3,129
    Europe
    #2938 MisterMaranello, Mar 26, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
    There is somewhat noticeable lag on the P1 compared to a high compression naturally aspirated engine. It's in the nature of forced induction engines that there is a spooling time.

    Torque-fill on demand is a very handsome solution, but as the name says - "on demand". The turbo is not constantly running at the required pressure. The electric engine fills torque while the turbo spools, that's a interim solution, not proactively preventing turbo lag. You want to as-good-as eliminate lag? Look to rally cars and their Anti Lag System (which is the reason you always see the exhaust is red hot). The turbo is constantly spooled which means there is no delay for pressure to build. The negative effect of this is of course immense heat buildup and wear. I.e. not suitable for road cars.

    Take a modern turbo engine put by it self and there may not be any noticeable lag. But place it next to an equally high performing naturally aspirated engine and you will notice the difference.
     
  17. Arnie

    Arnie Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2011
    462
    New Jersey
    I thought when Jay Leno reviewed the car they used specific electric motors besides the ones that drive wheels to keep the turbos spinning so that is why there is suppose to be zero lag.
     
  18. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    They use an electric motor to supplement the engine, just like the LaFerrari and the 918, but a bit of lag is still there.
     
  19. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
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    Sure. But it's about an overall solution. In this case they didn't have to worry about lag because the e motor masks it.

    Totally agree on anti lag. BMW uses anti lag on the new m3 and m4. I notice no appreciable response difference vs my v8 m3.
     
  20. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    Just watched it again. He actually says that the throttle response of the p1 rivals the f12, so not sure where you got that from.
     
  21. 707

    707 Karting

    May 29, 2014
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    I believe throttle response is when you hit the gas how fast can the car react? Does the car reacting without its full power (lag) count as throttle response? The electric engine would hit first and than probably the turbo. Maybe that is why it can have a fast throttle but still lag?
     
  22. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    6,098
    Bournemouth, UK
    My mistake, it was Bovingdon who said it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=269&v=IiyyO7vrdiI

    @4:23

    Other testers have noticed it also.
     
  23. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
    5,717
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  24. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    So no road tests or more pics yet ?
     
  25. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

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  26. todo

    todo Formula Junior

    May 18, 2006
    305
    My soul less Porsche Turbo S (2015) which sounds like a vacuum cleaner has NO turbo lag... and I have had previous versions which all had the lag...
    Turbo technology has come a long way....
    But Turbos have no soul so if Ferrari can do both it will be win win...
     
  27. cpiguy

    cpiguy Formula 3
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    +1
     
  28. 911C4S

    911C4S Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2011
    385
    you are right, the turbo S sounds like a tyson but it does have noticeable turbo lag.
    if ferrari does not do better (i hope very much it will do better), i shall flip the 488 for a speciale.
    when do we expect the first test of the 488?
    peter
     

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