488 GTB - Gasket Sealant? | FerrariChat

488 GTB - Gasket Sealant?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by BLUESL, Jun 25, 2018.

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  1. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    i have a new 488 GTB and I am concerned about the cosmetic state of the engine and what that says about what it went through during test. The car came with a letter which explained away the higher than expected delivery mileage.

    Chief concerns are scuffs on some of the castings, through the surface finish to the aluminium beneath.

    My biggest concern is the obvious use of gasket sealant with an excess on the outside and a concern there may be the same inside, all ready to break off and block the lubrication system.

    Question is, is gasket sealant normally used on these engines. I would have thought that with properly machined surfaces, a metal gasket and proper assembly technique, it should not be needed on a new engine.

    Any thoughts anyone?
     
  2. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,126
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    Ferrari has used gasket sealer on the lower pan section of there engines since Boxer/308 days. While your concern for excess sealant could be valid, it is not uncommon to have sealant come loose from the outside edge of the castings. In 22 years I have yet to see any damage or blockage from excess sealant. I have found sealant in the pick up and bottom of the tanks before but it is not in an amount the would cause an issue.
    Pictures would help in accessing your situation as well.
    Now go drive the hell out of it.
     
  3. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    Thanks, here’s a picture. You can see it’s the seal between the rear casting which runs across the width of the engine and one of the camshaft covers. The scuffs on the casting look to be from a tool slipping. Not great when the engine is on display in this $300000 car (UK price). Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Far Far from excessive!!!! there is no problem there what so ever. DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE ENJOY :)
     
  5. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    I understand what you are saying but I have an F355 which is a ticking time bomb needing replacement valve seats at some point which cost a lot to fix. I am trying to avoid, while it is still under warranty, any engine issues that I can. I should also mention that the black panel behind the glass engine cover is chipped, presumably as a result of the efforts to fix the engine in situ. It all points to a poor job. Really, Ferrari build quality leaves much to be desired!
     
  6. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,070
    You are being completely ridiculous. That is completely normal and not indicative of poor quality on any brand, some sealant extension beyond the surfaces is required. If you still have a 355 that hasn't had a valve guide/seat failure since new how is there a lack of quality.
     
  7. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Grant
    What was the matter that the engine needed to be fixed in situ

    My guess is that is not from the factory but something was fixed after
     
  8. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    It wont hurt anything but other 488 i have seen do not look like that.
    Go look at some and compare for yourself
     
  9. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    Hey, ridiculous or not, my original question was whether gasket sealant is routinely used on a brand new 488 engine. It appears not, judging by the 10 or so cars I’ve looked at - there has been no sign of it at all.

    Gasket sealant shouldn’t be necessary when sealing newly machined surfaces. It seems most likely that there was a problem with the engine in the car and it was (badly) fixed in place, and the car retested, with the higher than normal delivery mileage (80 miles).

    I’m surprised the problem was not picked up in a hot engine test and I’m trying to find out what work was done.

    Oh and just in case you think this car is a garage queen, it’s not. It’s already seen very high speeds on the German Autobahn and has picked up a few stone chips and an underbody scuff following the route of the Mille Miglia in May. The car is great but that doesn’t excuse Ferrari from doing a proper job building it!
     
  10. Tony H

    Tony H Karting

    Sep 3, 2013
    156
    What surprises me is not the sealant but the scuff marks and what appears to be a poor surface finish on the casting.
     
  11. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    Yes, you can imagine the first attempt to seal the engine was to tighten the bolts and the tool slipped, damaging the casting and exposing the aluminium underneath. I expect those bolts have been over tightened - steel bolt into aluminium thread: not good.
     
  12. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Take it back and make them fix it if its not too old
     
  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    They likely do use gasket sealer but they do not generally do a sloppy job
     
  14. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,387
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    No..they do a sloppy job. I'm far more concerned with how the #4 ignition coil label is not quite straight.
     
  15. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I would be more concerned of how they damaged the casting, did a poor job of resealing andthen try to tell you that there was no repair or explain it.
     
  16. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    The ignition cable problem is a supplier issue more so ha ha
     
  17. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
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    Brian Brown
    That is a joint where the timing cover gasket meets the cam cover seals. The factory has to put sealant there or it will leak oil. They usually wipe it smooth after assembly, so you don't see it.
    It is possible that the engine required repair after its initial assembly, hence the marks on the casting and the small blob of sealant. I would not worry about it as it is not excessive. If it really bothers you, get a small Exacto knife and trim off the little blob of sealant flush with the castings.
     
    BLUESL likes this.
  18. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    It’s been back at the dealer since the beginning of June, 8 issues, one of which is “working as designed”, one is “cannot recreate”, the rest are fixed leaving just this engine issue.
     
  19. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    The “working as designed” issue was the fact that the front left wheel runs hotter than the other three. I thought there might be a problem with alignment or something binding but it turns out the aircon vents close to the wheel and heats it up.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
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    T. Monma
    The picture suggests to me that someone has been in this one-look at the internal faces of the hex socket cap screws-if carefully examined, you will see shiny tool marks from recent tooling application of torque...the OP listed as a London resident-this explains the slightly powdered surfaces of the alloy. When new, it has a "casting wax" on the surface-when degreased for service, this almost always washes off with solvents and the moisture from atmosphere promotes alloy "rusting" which is the dusty surfaces one frequently sees on "bare" alloys...shiny means surface contact under force....
    As for the Glue- which you seem so concerned: this is another indicator.
    While this is normal gushing from a post factory repair, it is most certainly not the fist application: just look on the internet for film of engine manufacture-there is a CNC robotic assembly machine driven by the man on the line which applies the glue!
    These robots typically have multiple socket drivers which torque hardware to final spec as well-thus removing the human error factor.
    This is a cam cover-they have been a principle oil leak spot-based on design quirks-for, well since the beginning of it all...
    I understand your concerns, but, this IS a machine-thus: how it operates, is far more important than how it looks...
    In summation, apart from cosmetic dissatisfaction, there is little to NO reason to worry about function-IMO....
     
  21. BLUESL

    BLUESL Karting

    Mar 17, 2014
    78
    London
    Thanks for the reply, as for the cosmetics, I would say that as soon as Ferrari decide to put the engine on show under a glass cover, the cosmetics become important. “Look at our beautiful craftsmanship...”

    I too noticed the socket headed bolts condition and I expect they have been severely over-tightened in an effort to seal the engine. That’s probably why the tool slipped and scuffed the casting.

    There’s no doubt it’s a complex assembly which will require careful tightening of the bolts - see the parts diagram. Whether they have a robot to do this, I do not know, they are probably only making 20 of these engines a day, if that.

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